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A/C B connecting rods "Rework"

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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2022 at 8:39pm
Put a good pin in vice that will go through wrist pin (3/8 extenson). Put pin through wrist pin and torque.                     MACK
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ac55tractor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2022 at 9:01pm
Oh, okay, I get it. Thanks Mack.
I realized earlier that even though the connecting rod is off center, the piston is not. So I should be able to center the pin inside the piston and tighten it down.

Mack,
I was wondering If I would hear back from you.
I had never heard of a fire ring, so I looked it up. That is a great idea for creating a seal in a cylinder head.
My family and I go to the Cumberland Fair here in Maine every September. I have been known to sneak off with my grandson to watch the tractor pulls. It's amazing, the horse power that those tractors can create.
Thanks again for the idea.
Steve
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Lonn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 5:28pm
One important reason for bearing crush is heat dissipation. The bearing could burn out without the bearing crush because the back of the bearing surface needs to be in tight contact with the rod and cap to take away the heat. 

Edited by Lonn - 05 Jan 2022 at 5:29pm
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
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ac55tractor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2022 at 7:02pm
Thank you for that. It only adds to the fact that bearing crush is absolutely necessary.

I have a question.

Does the bearing have to extend out of both the cap and the rod, or will it work with having the extension come out of the cap only?

Thanks

Steve


 
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 1:58pm
I don't think it matters....have messed with some rebuild rods an know the shell stuck out a little but can't tell you whether rod or cap.My belief is as long as you have crush you're ok. I am no authority.....
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JK in Pa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JK in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 2:05pm
The wrist pins cannot be centered. Directions will get you there.  Many rebuilds were ruined in a mater of hours.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 3:28pm
John, on the smaller B/ C motor , i think the pin is centered in the piston... Its the CRANK end of the rod you have to watch how you install........ Now the WC / WD motor I believe is not centered on the piston end ??? ......... and all the rods go in the same way on the CRANK end ??
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JK in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 3:42pm
Steve, you are right.  I was thinking he was working on a WD Motor.  Sorry for the confusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 3:46pm
Thank you SteveM C/L, Thank you JK in PA. and Thank you Steve (ill)
I am going over the service manual right now. The pins are centered.
No problem, I know that I have the best guidance on this overhaul.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 3:55pm
just watch the CRANK END of the rod... they dont all go in the same way.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 4:15pm
Joke here
I can always use the ball pean to get them to fit.
Truth here.
But Steve, they all came out aiming the same direction.
You know that I will be sure that they get reinstalled properly. Something tells me that there was side play inside the piston at the wrist pin to allow the incorrect offset. That may explain the broken piston ring. Not sure, who knows? 

I have a whole list of questions. I Just want to get through fitting these rods first.

Here is one for you all.
The floating oil pickup is attached to the pipe that goes to the block. The pickup is attached with one tube going into another and held in with a cotter pin. Is it possible, that along with the oil that is being pulled up, if air being pulled up as well.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 4:51pm
the screen should be well BELOW the oil line.. should not suck air.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2022 at 6:47pm
It was something that I noticed, I was curious about it. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 3:49pm

Over last weekend, I was able to get in contact with the son of the original owner of my Allis B. I asked him if he knew anything about the engine being worked on in the past. He said that he remembered that his father was getting lower end noise from the engine. He said his father worked on the crankshaft. He pulled shims out, and ground the flats of the connecting rods to get the connecting rods to fit. He remembered that they squeezed the rods in a vice at the parting lines because he removed too much from the flats on the rods to get them to fit.

That explained to me how the bores on the connecting rods became egged. 

I finished the rods today. I am very happy with they way that they spin freely on the crankshaft.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 5:22pm
Does it make sense to balance the rods? Pistons?

I lost track of what all you are doing.
Maybe you can recap the scope of the rebuild?
I know you worked on the main journal bearings
and end play.
New pistons, rings and liners?
Rings- end gap and clearance/fit to grooves in pistons.
Liners- protrusion and o-ring sealing. If the block's
sealing surface is corroded they might leak.
The camshaft, you should put the lifters back to the lobe
where they came from.

From my experience the top problems of rebuilds are
crank/rod bearing issues, wet liner leak, head gasket leak.
Another is the darn rear main seal leaking.

Interesting to me, I have a '48 C needing an engine rebuild.



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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:28pm
He remembered that they squeezed the rods in a vice at the parting lines because he removed too much from the flats on the rods to get them to fit.

well........... i dont remember reading that one in the service manual !!  Wink
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:32pm

I have a new set of pistons, rings, and liners. I checked the block closely and it seems to be in great shape. I checked the top of the bare block with a straight edge. There was no deviation or uneven areas. I spent a lot of time cleaning the oil sludge out of the block and getting the dirt out of the coolant chamber.

I purchased an oil pump rebuild kit and have lapped the back plate flat. That Is ready to go.

I rebuilt the governor assembly.

At first the liners would not go all the way down into the block. I lightly honed the lower liner diameter with a small wheel cylinder hone and some light oil, and the liners slide right in now, without the “O” rings attached.

After setting the liners into place, (without “O” rings), I checked the protrusion for the liners. They sit cleanly in the block with a .002 - .004 protrusion.

The camshaft lifters were pulled, cleaned, numbered, tagged, and bagged. I have installed new cam bearings, and I purchased a remanufactured cam shaft. 

After measuring the cam all the cam lobes are the same height, and the 3 bearing journals each measure 1.749.

After getting the cylinder head milled flat. I have rebuilt the cylinder head with new valves, springs, and valve guides. Lapped the valves to the new valve seats.

That’s all I can think of right now. I haven’t gotten to setting the gap on the rings yet. I was wondering if it was necessary for me to make a ring squaring tool to seat the piston ring squarely in the bore, to use a feeler gauge to check its gap.

I have a better idea how to maintain bearing crush and how shimming the split line works. I have never heard of ether of these.

I am not an engine rebuilder. I feel that I do have enough common sense to assemble this engine into spec. Having the service manual and a parts number book has been a big help as well. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:40pm
sounds like you are building a RACE CAR !!!............... 125 cubic inch / 20 HP.. LOL Wink
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:40pm
I had to get an answer on those rods. I contacted the guy who sold me the tractor. 
(He was the builder of my house and my former neighbor.) He was easy to find. 
He said that he traded an old station wagon for the tractor in the late 80's. Unfortunately the original owner had passed away over 10 years ago, but he was able to get in touch with his son for me. We spoke on the phone for almost an hour. He seemed happy to hear that Wendy and I were taking good care of his fathers Allis B. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:47pm
Oh, I forgot to mention that I took the plunge, and got oversize pistons, rings, and sleeves. Got to have that extra 1 or 2 horsepower when I really need it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:06pm
Use your pistons to square the rings.                MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:32pm
Thanks Mack 
That's a good Idea. That will save me some time. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 8:44pm
Just after Christmas, I tried to place a ring into the (bottom) of one of the sleeves. As it went in, it made a short scratch in the liner. I looked at the gap, it looked at the gap by eye, close to .010, maybe less.  I pulled the ring out and put it back in the package. 
Before I place another ring in a sleeve, I am going to check it for burrs,  
Clearly, I have a lot of work ahead of me. The engine is in the cellar. I work on it for a few hours every day. Some days I don't go near it at all. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by ac55tractor ac55tractor wrote:

The camshaft lifters were pulled, cleaned, numbered, tagged, and bagged. I have installed new cam bearings, and I purchased a remanufactured cam shaft.

Are you going to resurface the lifters since the reman camshaft had the lobes ground (I presume)? The guidance I got and info I found around the internet suggested this was a good idea when installing a reground cam.

Here's a thread I started where I asked the question and ended up resurfacing my WD lifters myself once I discovered that a brand new lifter for that engine was flat. I do not know for certain if the B engine lifters were flat or slightly convex when new. Another potential risk is that I do not know if they are hardened to a certain depth that I might have gotten into. Other members had done this before so I thought it was low risk. I still have not gotten my engine back together yet unfortunately.

Just wanted to bring this up if you hadn't thought about it yet.

1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2022 at 8:04pm
wjohn, I want to thank you for sending out that link to me. I read it over and the last thing that I need is chunks of chipped up lifters in the oil pan.
I checked a couple of lifters and they were flat on the bottom. Then I picked up a third one. It was #5. It was concave. That was the lobe number that was warn out on the cam that I pulled. I am going to fix the lifters here at the house. 
Thanks again for the heads up. 
Steve (inME)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 1:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac55tractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 1:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 4:04pm
That looks nice. In the last picture it looks finer, I guess you lapped it.
The camshaft makers are fanatically adamant about the proper assembly
lube and break-in oil, and priming the oil system for first start up.
That is for high revving latter day engines. Yours is 1600 rpm, low
spring pressure. Still, I would get some of that camshaft assembly lube.


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