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calico190xt68 
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Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
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 Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 9:18am |
I took the skid plate off and then got a 1 1/4 inch socket on the
lower plug. I don't see how you would get to the upper plug with the
pump still on the tractor. After removing the plug the lower cap and
the spring fell out. The spool did not fall out but it didn't take a
lot of twisting via the the two slots at the end of the spool to get it
to come out. There was no resistance which makes me think it wasn't
really stuck. The spring does not appear to be broken. However, I went back and looked at parts diagram and the
shims and washer have not fallen out. I took a picture after the spool
came out. I don't see anything left in there. I dug around and found nothing. I
show the parts diagram and the parts I haven't found yet however I did find the disk orifice but I can't tell the difference from a shim or a washer? Since it fell out, I am not sure of it's order, but I think it was on the bottom so it may be a shim. If so, where is the disk orifiice? Shims may be optional? I thought I would
hesitate to get comments as well before proceeding. All I can do is put it back together again unless the washer and shims are necessary. The spool certainly
doesn't seem to have burrs and baby butt smooth. I haven't dealt with
the inside yet to see if it needs smoothing. My current guess is that
maybe the washer or shims have gotten stuck up inside there. The long side of the spool appeared to be pointing down in case that matters. But, someone would have to have installed it wrong a long time ago.
Here are pictures in case anyone can shed some light on what I am seeing now. Any insight is appreciated:
After spool is out:
Parts that came out so far plus the disk orifice. I found it in the pan later:
Here is the parts diagram. and the parts I haven't found yet but may still be in there.
Edited by calico190xt68 - 05 Mar 2023 at 9:44am
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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calico190xt68
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Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
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Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 9:54am |
I felt like I needed to add more clarity and identify if this is a shim or a disk orifice. It fits perfectly inside the spool so I think it is a disk orifice. That means I am missing shim and washer potentially. I can call Agco and see if they have these parts. Not sure about availability though.
Here it is:
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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Lynn Marshall
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Dana, Iowa
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Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 12:18pm |
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I think that you have everything. Reassemble it like my picture from earlier shows. Short side of spool up and long side down. Orifice disc goes in the long side followed by the spring. Then the cap and nut. I think that your shims are still stuck in the cap, I can see the hole in the shim stack.
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calico190xt68
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Posted: 05 Mar 2023 at 2:33pm |
 Lynn Marshall wrote:
I think that you have everything. Reassemble it like my picture from earlier shows. Short side of spool up and long side down. Orifice disc goes in the long side followed by the spring. Then the cap and nut. I think that your shims are still stuck in the cap, I can see the hole in the shim stack. |
Lynn, you were right. A single washer was in the cap. No shims though as in your picture. I reassembled, long side down and put it all back and tractor steers just great now! While I didn't see anything in the orifice when it dropped out into the bucket, it might have been in there. I think the blockage has been there for awhile because I think in the fall it got a little harder to steer but not like it got after sitting over the winter.
Regardless, it is nice to have a fix and buy no parts! Thanks for everyone's assistance and help. Now, I have to get that skid plate back on.
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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CrestonM
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 24 Mar 2023 at 8:02pm |
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I’m doing the same thing to my tractor, I finally got the spool out, after removing the top plug and punching it out from the bottom. A whole bunch of metal chips came out when I pulled the bottom plug and some more came out with the spool. The spool itself doesn’t look like it’s in bad shape, I think these metal chips where what was making a stick. Are these chips most likely gear pump teeth?
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calico190xt68
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Posted: 25 Mar 2023 at 10:43am |
I am a newbie on working on Allis equipment but metal chips don't sound good. I saw none of that when I took mine apart. I also didn't have to take the top plug out and do any punching. After removing the bottom plug everything fell out. That orifice hole isn't very big so I imagine the chips were obstructing it. I don't know about fixing just the gear pump. Probably depends how bad. I know a rebuilt replacement hydraulic pump was about $1,800 when I priced it last month. There isn't a lot of room at the top to get that punch in there so not sure how you did that without removing the pump. My guess is that I had something other than metal in mine. Do you have a washer or two as well? Those didn't get chewed up by any chance?
I don't think there is any harm in putting it back together and see if the steering is better or good enough to avoid a replacement pump for awhile. If you put the spool back in and you can't push it up and down without much resistance, you still have something wrong. It slid up and down easy for me. I wish you luck and hope you don't have to replace it.
Edited by calico190xt68 - 25 Mar 2023 at 10:46am
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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CrestonM
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 9:26pm |
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Yes, I have those two spacer washers in the bottom plug. I will clean it up and put it back together and see how it steers, I hope it’s an improvement, but I’m really concerned about the gear teeth. I can’t figure out how they would get so chewed up, I don’t think that is a very typical failure.
The way I got the top plug out, was using a wrench to get it loose, then carefully using my fingers to get to it, and unscrew it. Getting it started back in might be another story… I just used the punch from the bottom side to knock the spool out through the top. That’s when some more metal chunks came out with it.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 9:27pm |
Edited by CrestonM - 27 Mar 2023 at 9:29pm
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 27 Mar 2023 at 10:04pm |
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I don't see your orifice disc in that picture. I would also be pulling the left hand hydraulic filter to see what it looks like.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 29 Mar 2023 at 9:47pm |
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Been busy the last couple days, but hopefully soon I will have time to get back on this. I will double check everything that fell out in the pan for the orifice disc, and after making sure the spool slides freely, I’ll put it back together and see if that makes a difference. Hopefully it does. Then I may look into a gear pump rebuild, because those chunks scare me.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 7:24am |
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If the steering works reasonably well after cleaning up that spool, I don't know why you would want to tear that pump apart. I doubt there are hardly ANY PARTS available for it internally. Leave it alone.
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 10:36pm |
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I checked today and the orifice disc is not accounted for. Anyone have one to part with?
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calico190xt68
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Posted: 30 Mar 2023 at 11:24pm |
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You might try agco. Wonder where it went?
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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calico190xt68
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Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 8:21am |
CrestonM wrote:
I checked today and the orifice disc is not accounted for. Anyone have one to part with? |
Curious if you ever found an orifice?
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80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
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CrestonM
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Posted: 05 Apr 2023 at 9:15pm |
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I looked back through all the parts double checking I didn’t miss anything, and it wasn’t there. But it was also missing one of the shim disks. So maybe whoever pulled the shim also lost the orifice disk?
I then remembered I had a “parts” pump assembly from one of these tractors, and it had the orifice disk and 3 shim disks. So I’ll clean the spool and put this orifice in.
How do I determine how many shims are needed?
Thanks!
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CrestonM
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Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 8:07pm |
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Got some time to work on this again this afternoon, cleaned everything up, tried to put the spool in, and it was really sticking. Took the inspiration from an earlier post and used a piece of emery cloth on a wooden dowel in a drill chuck to clean the bore out. Perfect. Spool slides freely. Reassembled in the right order, started the tractor. Had steering but was just a tough as before. At about 1,400 rpm I could turn the wheels fully but the steering wheel was still very slow and stiff.
Shut the tractor off and did something else, came back about 5 minutes later and tried again. Bumped the steering wheel and it bounced back and forth a few times. Never has done that before. Started engine. This time no steering at all. Wheel turned a little bit easier but no response. Noticed a drip coming out of the hand pump under the dash. Oil is seeping out at the top of the hand pump.
Ignoring the chunks of metal that originally came out with the spool, could it possibly be the hand pump that’s the issue?
I wish I had a flow meter, but those are pretty expensive for something so seldom needed, so it’s not in the budget. I’m not seasoned like some on here, but those chunks of iron that came out with spool really concern me as to the condition of the pump.
Thanks
PS- I might should add…last spring the entire trio of pumps was swapped out for a set of pumps from a donor tractor (the donor set being what’s installed currently). The original problem was the same steering issue, but also the remote hydraulics did not work. Swapping in this replacement pump fixed the remote operation, but the steering is only slightly better than with the original pump.
Edited by CrestonM - 11 Apr 2023 at 8:28pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 9:41pm |
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Start by rechecking the spool to see if it is stuck again !! Steering did work, now it doesn't. Stuck again might mean you are missing the screen in the left hand hydraulic filter...and if the screen is missing, there isn't any filtering going on. More shims should improve steering effort if the pump is good at all and IF THE SPOOL IS FREE. The top sight glass is full of oil ???
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CrestonM
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Posted: 11 Apr 2023 at 9:46pm |
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I’ll check the spool again tomorrow. Hopefully there aren’t more chunks coming through. When I reassembled, I used 2 shims as it had before but I’ll add the third one and see what happens.
Oil is in the bottom sight glass but not the top. Hydraulic fluid and filters were changed last spring with only about 10 hrs put on them since. The screen is present because I had to order one for it since the PO didn’t put it back in. Oops
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CrestonM
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Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 5:50pm |
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Checked it out. Spool fell out, so it’s not sticking. No metal chunks. Added another couple shims. The shim stack is now about 1/16” below the top edge of the cap they fit into. Started tractor, steering worked but was just as hard and slow as before. Once the engine got up to 2,300 RPM, I could almost spin it with the palm of my hand going to the right, it was easier going to the left. Guess that’s an effect of the regenerative steering.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 9:13pm |
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Dead-head a pressure gauge on the end of one steering hose and see what you have for pressure when you're turning the wheel hard against the gauge. I think the power steering relief is built into the orbitrol on those tractors and should be 1800 to 2,000 psi at 2300 RPM. Shims go in the bottom cap/cup. Spring seats against the shims. Orifice goes on top of the spring. Spool sits on top of the orifice. Priority circuit flow is to be 5 to 6 GPM at 2300 RPM.
Edited by DrAllis - 12 Apr 2023 at 9:26pm
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CrestonM
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Posted: 12 Apr 2023 at 10:46pm |
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I’ll try to round up a gauge and test that. Sounds like everything is assembled in the right order. I may also call a dealer and see if I can get someone to bring a flow meter out.
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