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big al 
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: indiana
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 Topic: 6138 TRUCK ENGINE?
Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 6:03pm |
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FOUND OUT THAT AFTER THE BIG WIGS AT CORP.DECIDED TO STOP OFFERING THE 25000 TRUCK ENGINE IN 1976,THE PURPLE PROGRAM CONTINUED ON.BY THE END OF THE EARLY 80'S THE ENGINE SEEN OVER A HUNDRED UPDATES.IT WAS READY TO GO BACK IN THE TRUCK,IN FACT THE ENGINE WAS ABUSE TESTED AT 675HP WITHOUT ANY FAILURES!!!THIS WAS ALL CONFIRMED TODAY BUY THE TWO ENGINEERS THAT HEADED THE PROGRAM.APPARENTLY THE ENGINE WAS READY TO GO BUT ALLIS WAS BLEEDING TO DEATH(REMEMBER THIS WAS THE RECESSION WHEN NOTHING WAS SELLING AND IF YOU COULD GET A LOAN IT WAS 20%+INTEREST)JEFF AND I ARE WORKING WITH THE RETIRED ENGINEERS TO GO OVER THERE DOCUMENTS TO BUILD SOME OF THESE MOTORS.
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DougG
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Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 6:06pm |
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Wish it coulda been a reality,
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HD6 Merv
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Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 9:40pm |
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wonder what box it would have had behind it ??
Biggest roadranger back then would have been a 1200 series ??
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tits tyres and tracks
they all cost you money
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 6:52pm |
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Update please
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 8:43pm |
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I had a late 25000 MK II a few years ago that was high enough serial # to have all the updates that the 6138 had. 900hrs. Finally sold it for $3500. Would have made a great truck engine but too many projects.
Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 07 Aug 2013 at 8:44pm
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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big al
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Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 10:25pm |
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JEFF H. & I FOUND A STASH OF SOME BIG AL PARTS OUT EAST,GOING TO SEE A PARTS LIST SHORTLY.GOING TO SEND A TRUCK BELL HOUSING TO A PATTERN MAKER IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS AND CAST APPROX.25 OF THEM.WE WILL MACHINE OVER THE WINTER AND WOULD BE AVAILABLE NEXT YEAR WITH A MATCHING FLYWHEEL.GOING TO RECEIVE ALL THE PURPLE ENGINE SALES BROCHURES TO POST NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS(301-844)RECEIVING NEXT BATCH OF FILES FROM THE ENGINEER IN THE NEXT MONTH.HAVE MORE TO TELL ABOUT 6138.FOUND DOCUMENT DATED 1972 DISCUSSING ENGINE BRAKE WITH JACOBS.GUY IN CHARGE OF PROJECT DIED AND PROJECT GOT BURIED.
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 6:26pm |
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This just keeps gittin better. Keep the info coming
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 22 Aug 2013 at 7:40pm |
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Bump. Update?
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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Lazyts
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Location: Manitoba
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Posted: 22 Aug 2013 at 11:15pm |
Just wondering if somebody knows what the difference is between the Thousand Series and the MK2 engines. I always assumed it was piston cooling, but it appears the piston cooling came before the MK2 designation- on the 11000 at least. Maybe an official source would know. I'm also curious about the Japanese crankshafts...
Interesting thread, I like these old stories. I was reading in an old Reporter magazine from the early seventies how Allis had a whole fleet of Mack Western FS-700 trucks with Allis Chalmers 25000 diesels, pulling parts out of the Carol Stream warehouse. (375 hp) Pretty impressive- we're talking about an era when a big farm tractor had 200 hp, and if you wanted big power, you needed a big engine. Not like today, when we're making big power with relatively small power plants.
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 7:24pm |
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BTT for update
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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cumminskta600
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Location: Buffalo NY
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Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 8:36pm |
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@ Lazyt Can you please scan and give more info on the Allis reporter you are talking about- Jeff
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Lazyts
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Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:55pm |
It was actually an article about the Allis parts warehouse, (Carol Stream, IL) originally printed in "Diesel and Gas Turbine Progress" magazine. All it really says about the trucks is this: "The Parts Division has recently taken delivery of 22 new replacement units for its fleet: these are Mack series FS-700 tractors built by Mack Western and are all powered with the Allis-Chalmers 25000 engine, producing 375 horsepower at 2100 rpm."
(Allis-Chalmers Reporter magazine, Vol. 33 No. 1)
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 21 Oct 2013 at 4:37pm |
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Btt again. I for one is still interested in this one
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 7:42pm |
another bump and question
so after reading above post about having parts cast, is there is a special bellhousing/ adapter that is needed to put one of these engines in a truck? im curious as to the feasability of putting a 6120 (4w-305 or 8550) into a truck. no it wouldnt be a purple truck engine but what exactly is required to mate to truck trans. ie flywheel and clutch? I was thinking the bellhousings were standardized to accomodate a common pattern among all engines? or is it standard on the trans side? what would a person need to accomplish this?
Edited by CAL(KS) - 10 Nov 2013 at 7:44pm
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 8:09pm |
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Hello, The 6120 Block is the same as the 6138. You would need a SAE 1 Bell housing/flywheel to accept a 14'' or 15/1/2'' clutch
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 8:11pm |
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Also, rear sealing/Crank surface is critical on these engines so jamming a CUMMINS Bellhousing up would not work on the back of a Allis Chalmers for example..... Hope that helps. Jeff
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tbran
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Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 9:06pm |
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we have a block if anyone is in need.....
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:34am |
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My un-educated guess is that the best source of a SAE bellhousing suitable for a truck application would be from an old genset. I'm sure A-C built a lot more gensets with the 844 engine then they did for trucks.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:40am |
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what is your block a 6138 or a 25000, I am interested. Hello Calvin, I wish they were that simple but most gensets had a SAE "0" Bell housing and a Automotive application usually takes a SAE "1" For a Big transmission for the big al. I am also looking for a guy in NY who called me over the summer said he had a 25000 on a air compressor. He wanted 8500.00 for it and Id like to tak to him again
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:41am |
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Interested in your Block 6120,6138, 25000?
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tbran
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Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 7:13pm |
The block we have came out of a 8550- it still has some rods but no crank.
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 10:31pm |
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What do you want for it?
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Buckeye Chalmers
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Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 10:35pm |
Does anyone have a copy of the Reporter that features the purple engine?
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 6:31am |
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I wish
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 12:06pm |
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I made a page on Facebook I put a lot of pics up of the BIG AL engine it is labeled ALLIS CHALMERS BIG AL TRUCK ENGINE.
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 7:15pm |
 cumminskta600 wrote:
I made a page on Facebook I put a lot of pics up of the BIG AL engine it is labeled ALLIS CHALMERS BIG AL TRUCK ENGINE. |
I haven't been able to find it. Can you post a link?
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Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity"
1968 D15D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 23 Nov 2013 at 10:06pm |
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Don do you have a Facebook page?
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 4:41am |
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Bump. I find your Big Al info interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Oldred
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Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 10:04am |
cumminskta600 wrote:
Hello, The 6120 Block is the same as the 6138. You would need a SAE 1 Bell housing/flywheel to accept a 14'' or 15/1/2'' clutch |
This means a 6138 would be a fairly easy swap into a 4W305 if the blocks are same ? Is the 25000 series the same block also or different ? Is the lowest horsepower rating around 375 ?
Thanks for any info Mark
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cumminskta600
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Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 1:08pm |
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Hello Mark, Yes a 6138 back of engine block bolt pattern is the same. My Friend Jack said that they detuned the 6138 to a 6120 because the Transmission wouldn't take the torque/abuse of the 6138 but I would imagine if you are gentle things might stay together. Well you should be able to detune the pump to any specs that you would want with in reason to ease the pain on the transmission.
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