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6 volt to 12 volt conversion om Allis Chalmers C

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kujo View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 Nov 2018
Location: treynor IA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kujo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6 volt to 12 volt conversion om Allis Chalmers C
    Posted: 08 Feb 2020 at 8:26pm
when doing the conversion is it best to use a one wire alternator or a two wire because i have had trouble with amp meter showing a negative discharge and the tractor dies. Any help would greatly be appreciated i would like to talk to someone with experience in this matter. I'm in treynor Iowa 402-203-4171 Thanks
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 8:59am
Its always easier on the engine especially if you go to the three wire setup. Most one wire Alternators need 1200-1400 rpm in order to "excite" the regulator in a one wire to start the changing process. With a three wire setup, 400-450 rpm is all you need and the Alt is already charging.  No revving of the engine. Your engine will be happy.

We offer complete 6-12V conversion kits if interested. Also, Alternator bracket kits. Visit our website. There's a lot of information there on 12V conversions and the do's and don't with running electrical. Its always safer to run a Voltmeter when using and Alternator.  An Ammeter is a flow meter and needs full power running through it to tell you something. A Voltmeter just splices into the system, and gives you accurate voltage outputs. Like I mentioned, a visit to our website will answer a lot of questions you may have on 12V conversions.. HTH
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'IB, 49'G, 50'WF, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 3:22pm
What Steve said
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2020 at 5:33pm
The ammeter has to be wired properly for the charging set up you have. Original would have been positive ground, and you alternator is probably negative ground, so the wires need switched around on the ammeter.
 If the alternator is actually killing the engine, something isn't hooked up right.



Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 12 Feb 2020 at 4:22pm
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 7:02am
Tuck,
Read your post. You're backwards. Alternator's are Neg ground.... LOL!! You know that, you just typed it wrong...  LOL!  We're gettin' old buddy!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'IB, 49'G, 50'WF, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Tuck,
Read your post. You're backwards. Alternator's are Neg ground.... LOL!! You know that, you just typed it wrong...  LOL!  We're gettin' old buddy!
Steve@B&B

 Steve, evidently when you're half dyslexic, ya don't see those mistakes, even if you proof read it  Wink
 I fixed it though.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 4:34pm
I converted our D17 IV from 12V positive ground to negative ground using Steve's alternator conversion kit last year and the tractor charges at the lowest idle. Maybe a bit more complicated and perhaps more money, but I'd go the three wire mode.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 9:04pm
re:... Alternator's are Neg ground.

MOST, not all Alternators are negative ground. You can buy ($$$) +ve ones...

I used CS130 series alternators, stock pulleys, on 4 D-14s, all charge fine.... You need to 100% rewire the tractor though, otherwise the gremlins WILL come and bite yer ,um, derrier.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 7:00am
I've built a few positive ground Alternators in my day.... 6 & 12V
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'IB, 49'G, 50'WF, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 8:05am
I believe the C has some space restrictions. You might look for a Denso type (smaller) set up as a one wire with low RPM charging. Yes I have one on my IH Dozer. It works great. It was not cheap. about $175. But it works and is a true 1 one wire small alternator neg ground. I use a volt meter rather than a amp meter as recommended by Steve. Have done 5 tractors with the volt meters. 
I have used 3 wire on my WD series tractors, with a diode in the exciter wire. 

My 2 cents.
 Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 13 Feb 2020 at 9:04pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Ford Jubilee, IH TD6 Many IH Cub Cadets
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:37am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

rYou need to 100% rewire the tractor though, otherwise the gremlins WILL come and bite yer ,um, derrier.


  Don't say that too loud, my 45 has had a used 10Si alternator on it for 15 years or more, and it still has the original wiring(except for the hot wire to the coil, which somebody replaced at one time). I just removed the 3 way switch and put a toggle in for the lights. Maybe if I ever get around to replacing the wore out key switch, I will string some new wires Wink
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:47am
well now we all know what you'll be doing this weekend !!!LOLWink
I won't say anymore.....

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:54am
LOL!!  Tuck yer' killin' me!  You are to much!  LOL   

For the C,CA and the G, kits I offer, I use the Denso Alternator and not the "SI".  I used to offer the "CS" series, but being the Denso is just a tic smaller, it gives more room on all three of those model Tractors. Especially on the little G. I wire my Denso's to 3 wire design keeping with the immediate charging process at low rpms where these Tractor engines like it. The Denso does make the kits more expensive, but makes a real nice 12V conversion kit for the guys who aren't bothered with using an Alternator rather than a Gennie.  The "CS" series Alternators are optional on the other kits I offer, like for the B, & IB.
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'IB, 49'G, 50'WF, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 11:00am
I have used a Hitachi 3 wire mini alternator on several of my old tractors. Not really that hard to wire and I do like how they will excite at a low rpm. I also have always gone to a voltmeter that turns on with the ignition rather than staying with the ammeter. Have one on my Allis WD and it works great for running better lights and starting in cold temps for blowing snow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

LOL!!  Tuck yer' killin' me!  You are to much!  LOL   
Steve@B&B

 Well, I had this alternator given to me, when a guy scraped out an old rusted out Chebby Blazer. Since I had no idea if it was going to work, I wasn't going to spend my time or money putting a new harness on it. It's too crusty looking for that anyway Wink
 It's just one of those things that never broke, so why fix it Sleepy
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 2:55pm
Anyone have a wiring diagram for a 3 wire alternator for a tractor.
CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:17pm
do not use a one wire alternator you wil hate it,, go with the thre wire setup  and personaly i would replace the amp meter with a voltmeter the only thing you needto see is your volts if it isnt charging you wount have volts  ,also ampmeter would have to be a 60 amp rated at the min. its not any harder to wire a 3 wire one and you will not have the smallest pulley you can find and have to get it to full throtle every time you start it excite 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levipatch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:25am
For what its worth , I bought a mini alt. for 35 $ (NEW ) from a site on here, put it on a series 4   17 D with one wire thru the amp gauge. It charges  before the starter even winds down. Show s amps , works perfect.  Cant believe all the issues I see on here about how many wires you need. I do have batt disconnect when tractor not used. Can leave it on with no problems if I want.....  SO.......
Billy..Big cam 300, bcam 400,,941 CAT.,,Deere excavator..900 row crop.. 66 D 17 diesel IV... 985 Pratt and Whitney..4360 Pratt and Whitney... gitten tired !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:30am
Most conversions I've seen done recommend the Delco 10SI.  I have yet to figure out if that's a 3 or 1.  I've also seen them done with and without a diode, resistor, or bulb of some kind tied into the charge wire.  Someone should do a "once and for all time" wiring diagram and put it in the knowledge base.
AaronSEIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 7:36am
10SI is OLD and BIG and 3 wire...low amps
CS130 is newer and smaller and 3 wire...high amps

I get CS130s for free from scrapped cars, 3 D-14s with them, zero problems. I have 'idiot' light on one, a resistor on another and 3rd is 'one wire' setup...oh yeah, they all have different mtg brkts !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 8:25am
Here is the wiring diagram I have used on all my tractors with distributors and a 3 wire Hitachi 14231 mini alternator. So far have installed one on my Allis WD, a Farmall H, and a Ferguson TO-20 and they work great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 9:02am
Originally posted by levipatch levipatch wrote:

For what its worth , I bought a mini alt. for 35 $ (NEW ) from a site on here, put it on a series 4   17 D with one wire thru the amp gauge. It charges  before the starter even winds down. Show s amps , works perfect.  Cant believe all the issues I see on here about how many wires you need. I do have batt disconnect when tractor not used. Can leave it on with no problems if I want.....  SO.......

Same here. Fit in with no issues and minimum changes
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 9:12am
What part number for alternator?
CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Ted in NE-OH Ted in NE-OH wrote:

What part number for alternator?
This is what I purchased.

Can't go wrong with the others noted earlier in the thread as they give you full support
Charlie

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 10:02am
FYI...from the spec sheet , pulley is 2.7" in diameter...
I'm thinking stock genny is 3.5, so it'll spin faster which is good.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levipatch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 11:03am
New for Alternator Chevy Mini SBC BBC 1-WIRE 35 AMP 1-2119-11NDSE 12180-SEN
New for Alternator Chevy Mini SBC BBC 1-WIRE 35 AMP 1-2119-11NDSE 12180-SEN
Seller :
97.4% Positive feedback
Save this Seller         Don't know if I did this rite, But I stand corrected,,, Price is 38$
Billy..Big cam 300, bcam 400,,941 CAT.,,Deere excavator..900 row crop.. 66 D 17 diesel IV... 985 Pratt and Whitney..4360 Pratt and Whitney... gitten tired !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levipatch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 11:14am
City Green  alt. on E bay... This is whar its at. Maybe you can find it.... I don't know bout this puter anymore. Im out dated    .
Billy..Big cam 300, bcam 400,,941 CAT.,,Deere excavator..900 row crop.. 66 D 17 diesel IV... 985 Pratt and Whitney..4360 Pratt and Whitney... gitten tired !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 3:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luke114 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 4:10pm
I've been looking at those mini Denso alternators and they look like a great fit.  I'm a little confused reading reviews on them in various places, with some buyers saying they are definitely not a one wire alternator and other saying yes.  They clearly have a couple extra terminals there, and the warning light circuit makes sense.  But why the other ignition circuit terminal?  Is it needed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levipatch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 4:37pm
Works with one wire period, don't even look at the plug........ This is self regulated works great.......Why pay all that money, all that work, all that wiring,,for what??????????? You could buy one a year for 38 $ and still save money, just saying.....Mines got 50 hours and alls well   !
Billy..Big cam 300, bcam 400,,941 CAT.,,Deere excavator..900 row crop.. 66 D 17 diesel IV... 985 Pratt and Whitney..4360 Pratt and Whitney... gitten tired !
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