Connecting rods

I find it real hard to beleve that someone with so much self proclaimed knowledge isn't out winning hooks and only has a pile of junk to show for forgetting (not knowing) the most basic principels of engine design.  In his last thread I had to show pictures and explain in detail how to position rods, explain cap angles, etc in order to get enough clearance for his immaginary build.

mlpankey wrote: injpumpEd wrote: mlpankey wrote: O.P.S. Heads wrote: My first post was really for Ed. He was  talking about hardened 426 rods so I thought I would chime in.  I sure as hell don't know it all and never claimed to, but Max Simpson probably does. He explained his process to me on the phone and it has worked well for us. Looking back on it all I should have just emailed Ed directly.   Pankenstein,   I have been a member on this board for about three weeks. I had read it many times prior to being a member and enjoyed most of the posts. I use to think some of the boys were just pickin on you, but it's obvious you have it coming. Damn boy, you need to tune in more and broadcast less. Make your rods however you want to. But for you to second guess a guy (Max) who has made more power than you could possibly conceive ( most recent - 5 consecutive time SSD NTPA champ - 426 block ) is just dumb. It is funny, you really don't know the knowledge of any posters here! OPS is one of the most knowledgeable guys on here. I'm thankful he finally joined, sharing his knowledge, not slamming everyone with arrogance. i am more second guessing understanding what you say you saw .  you or max one is who doing someone but then again if someone doesnt know the fixture that holds the rod in place for boring they could possibly think its a press. I just dont know the knowledge of poster .but i dont see oblonging a circular hole doing much but making center harder to find.  never heard the phrase i rather be lucky than good. i guess either . It doesnt take much measuring on the bearing half either to know it oblongs the hole by design to do what i posted above . however it would require the use of machine shop measuring tools . eliminating key board pullers. yeap one doesnt usually want to remove (excess material ) more than needed for cleanup in the parting line area due to there being less material there cause of rod bolts.

again we have explored the reasoning through the thought provoking processes for answeres and alternative ways to accomplish

Edited by mlpankey - 25 Jan 2013 at 10:25am

mlpankey wrote: O.P.S. Heads wrote: My first post was really for Ed. He was  talking about hardened 426 rods so I thought I would chime in.  I sure as hell don't know it all and never claimed to, but Max Simpson probably does. He explained his process to me on the phone and it has worked well for us. Looking back on it all I should have just emailed Ed directly.   Pankenstein,   I have been a member on this board for about three weeks. I had read it many times prior to being a member and enjoyed most of the posts. I use to think some of the boys were just pickin on you, but it's obvious you have it coming. Damn boy, you need to tune in more and broadcast less. Make your rods however you want to. But for you to second guess a guy (Max) who has made more power than you could possibly conceive ( most recent - 5 consecutive time SSD NTPA champ - 426 block ) is just dumb. It is funny, you really don't know the knowledge of any posters here! OPS is one of the most knowledgeable guys on here. I'm thankful he finally joined, sharing his knowledge, not slamming everyone with arrogance. i am more second guessing understanding what you say you saw .  you or max one is who doing someone but then again if someone doesnt know the fixture that holds the rod in place for boring they could possibly think its a press. I just dont know the knowledge of poster .but i dont see oblonging a circular hole doing much but making center harder to find.  never heard the phrase i rather be lucky than good. i guess either . It doesnt take much measuring on the bearing half either to know it oblongs the hole by design to do what i posted above . however it would require the use of machine shop measuring tools . eliminating key board pullers.

Ken(MI) wrote: I guess what puzzles me is the difficulty controlling distortion  through heat treating, proper heat treating practices minimize distortion, and I have all the respect in the world for Max Simpson, but I've never heard of distorting material prior to heat treating in order to control distortion, prior to steel reaching the austenizing temperature, it will relax and whatever stresses are in it are relieved and it will distort, usually in a very unpredictable manner, which is why thermal stress relief is the techinque used to remove stresses induced from forming and rough machining prior to finish machining and heat treating. The other factor is the material that the rods are made from in the beginning. I don't know about the 426 rods, but the majority of 125, 226 and 201 rods that I've seen were made at Atlas Drop Forge, and are nothing better than 1030 steel, salt brine quenched and tempered to about Rc 18-20 and not exactly what performance rods are made of, all the heat treating in the world won't improve garden variety materials to the level of 300M or 4340. Another point to consider is that regardless of being created from the same material, Billet rods, machined from bar stock will never equal forged rods. At the end of the day, the best rod available is forged from quality material, properly heat treated for maximum strength, and accurately machined.

thanks ken

I guess what puzzles me is the difficulty controlling distortion  through heat treating, proper heat treating practices minimize distortion, and I have all the respect in the world for Max Simpson, but I've never heard of distorting material prior to heat treating in order to control distortion, prior to steel reaching the austenizing temperature, it will relax and whatever stresses are in it are relieved and it will distort, usually in a very unpredictable manner, which is why thermal stress relief is the techinque used to remove stresses induced from forming and rough machining prior to finish machining and heat treating. The other factor is the material that the rods are made from in the beginning. I don't know about the 426 rods, but the majority of 125, 226 and 201 rods that I've seen were made at Atlas Drop Forge, and are nothing better than 1030 steel, salt brine quenched and tempered to about Rc 18-20 and not exactly what performance rods are made of, all the heat treating in the world won't improve garden variety materials to the level of 300M or 4340. Another point to consider is that regardless of being created from the same material, Billet rods, machined from bar stock will never equal forged rods. At the end of the day, the best rod available is forged from quality material, properly heat treated for maximum strength, and accurately machined.

mlpankey wrote: I would like to know if max is just who doing like wi and rob. looks to me like oblonging the wrist pin bore in a press would be making  possibly a place to fracture.  sometimes you wonder if its luck and luck only that gets people on podiums

I'm sure most here would agree, it would take much more than LUCK to see MP on a podium unless it was for mbuchrd's eulogy

Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 25 Jan 2013 at 7:25am

i my self have never seen an oblong bearing, I have noticed that upon removing them form a rod they stick to the side of the rod but once inserted in the rod end they are and should be a perfect circle! if they were not a person would eventually end up with on h@ll of a rod Knock! 

Gee O.P.S.  You obviously didn't read his post last month about being the smartest person on these forums!

My first post was really for Ed. He was  talking about hardened 426 rods so I thought I would chime in.  I sure as hell don't know it all and never claimed to, but Max Simpson probably does. He explained his process to me on the phone and it has worked well for us. Looking back on it all I should have just emailed Ed directly.

Flame hardening the rod should make the circle smaller so you can bore it back to standard without oblonging it in a press that could possibly cause a unseen stres crack.inmho

So in knowing the bearings are oblong by design why would you oblong the circular big end of a rod. In my opinion thats a who do job

Wow, now max is only lucky? Just when I thought I have read the most ridiculous statements ever, a new one flys in from the south!

Max Simpson was one of the reasons I bought an Allis.

I would like to know if max is just who doing like wi and rob. looks to me like oblonging the wrist pin bore in a press would be making  possibly a place to fracture.  sometimes you wonder if its luck and luck only that gets people on podiums