Connecting rods
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63442
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 11:07pm
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Topic: Connecting rods
Posted By: wi50
Subject: Connecting rods
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 8:44pm
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To save some time sending pictures and endless phone calls, here's some pictures. I've got quite a few engines in the works and keep getting a lot of questions as to what to do. Seams a lot of people want to build something, but want to do it in steps or don't need a huge engine, but might build one in the future, etc. Wanting the best bang for the buck and the ability to use parts over for future changes. I use a lot of Farmall H and 350 rods in the 201 and 226 based engines to give a good strong rod and keep a decent rod to stroke ratio. These rods have a canted cap and clear well in the 201 engines out to abut 5.4" stroke with a bit of work, in the 226 engines they clear well at 5.5" stroke and with some block clearanceing and sleve notching 5.75" stroke. By 6" they are to tight for comfort. They use a large diameter crankpin, 2.29" for a nice strong crankshaft when done. The rods are 8" center to center, 350 rods work great for pistons with a .927 pin and H rods work well for .990 wrist pins. The H rods have a large enough wrist pin bore in the end that sometimes I weld a solid slug in them and offset bore a new hole to change the length + or - .150 and with a smaller pin can be moved .200 longer or shorter. I clearance the rods in the milling machine and then a bunch of hand work. I use a stronger rod bolt than they originally had and countersink it in the cap for added clearance. It's a bunch of work to finish out a set of take out rods into a final product. Make bushings for the end, clearance the rods, size the bores, balance, and sometimes it takes a lot to get these old rods to balance. They are soft, and if needed for the application it's a trip to the heat treater. All of this adds cost for the end user. I have a local fella makeing billet rods for me in his small CNC shop. I did my homework on material selection and grain structure for rods. I'd love to make them but I don't have a CNC or the countless time to stand by my manual machine. Though a bit more costly they sure are easier to work with. The added benefit of a narrow crankpin also makes for a stronger end product. It's easy to change the length, pin size and cap angle for clearance issues or for special applications. Here's a few pictures of some of the rods.  Billet on the bottom, clearanced and reworked Farmall H, take out H and Allis 226 on top.  8" billet rod on left, reworked Farmall H on the right, notice the different cap angle used on the billet for added clearance. The H rod is actually 7.85" long instead of the original 8" length. Both use a .990" pin. I have the billet rod set up to take a H series Cleveite berring for a 2" Chevy crankpin. There's a huge selection of berrings available to interchange for the billet rod weather you want a soft or hard berring, coated, etc. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Replies:
Posted By: AC Billy
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 8:57pm
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Good stuff ! Thanks for taking the time show your work.. It says alot about your knowledge and your abilities. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 9:42pm
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
wi50 wrote:Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2013 at 11:11pm
| Ed, heat treat first, then do your finishing machine work. They distort maybe a little, I've never had any come back with any real serious distortion though. Some guys like to cryo-treat them too. |
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 3:33pm
| Nice! |
Posted By: BRYAN H
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 3:44pm
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WITCH ONE IS BETTER HEAT TREAT OR CRYO TREAT? |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 4:09pm
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I'm not trying to answer for wi but I believe they are different process for different applications. But I believe heat treating of some sort is a must. It has more to do with the hardness ofvthe metal where cryo is " stress relief". |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 4:44pm
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Wheres Rod . I though he might want to talk about large wide rod bearings and friction robing horsepower ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 5:39pm
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Ed, I know that when you send a set of rods for a 426 or a 301 to max Simpson, he puts the big end of the rod in a press and actually squashes the round hole into an oval - slightly. This sounds a little crude, but he obviously has it down to a science as far as how far to go. This is all prior to the heat treat process. Then when he gets the rods back from heat treat, the big ends are very close to being round for less machine work and material removed.
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Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 6:35pm
Sure I'll teach you a thing or two on connecting rods. First lesson is to listen to those who know more than you. In this instance that would be spankey listening to everybody else. A few forum members said not to use buda rods in his engine but he did anyway. Guess what the outcome was? They were right and spankey was wrong. Bent rods rob horsepower. Useing unsuited junk in the first place causes bent rods. Being an idiot causes one to use unsuited junk. Anyone care to guess what the common denominator is? Nice job on the rods WI. spankster's jealous. Again. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: firephight
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 7:38pm
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 9:14am
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well rod i guess we should pull the posts back up where you are arguing about rod width and bearing friction . nice job rod changing argument to be allright for wi to do but not for another builder to do . ps anytime you heat treat , cryo or just change rod bolts the rod needs to be resized. To resize the big end you simply grind the cap to reduce the journal size then bore back to original size . if the small end has been oblonged in a press the the pin bore would have to be enlarged to a larger piston pin in my thoughts. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 11:12am
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You were right Butch......
Ed, I just have a friend do any heat treating, he's got a large manufacturing business in town so with a scrap part for a test piece one can get the heat treat right before wrecking good parts. Nitrading, heat treateing, EDM machine, it's nice to have friends like that. Just buy a $6500 set of rods from Hyper..... they'll hold up just fine and it's as easy as makeing a phone call. Though it's probably more sensable to spend a couple hundred bucks on yours. I've seen hardened rods hold up fine, and I've seen billet ones break. A little thought and sensable design into the rest of the engine sure help with one's final outcome. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 12:11pm
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well, after much deliberation, sorry Marty, I'm sending some rods to plankie. LOL! Just kidding! I'll be getting some ready this weekend to send to you Marty. I'll need to get pin bushings ordered, and rod bolts, then they'll come your way. I have a junk rod I can send up for a "test" piece. Thanks again Marty! Ed. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2013 at 1:43pm
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 8:28am
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I would like to know if max is just who doing like wi and rob. looks to me like oblonging the wrist pin bore in a press would be making possibly a place to fracture. sometimes you wonder if its luck and luck only that gets people on podiums ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 8:43am
| Not the wrist pin bore. I said the big end of the rod which to most folks is the end that hooks to the crankshaft. Max has been doing things like this and much more for years and years and is a smart, smart guy. He makes good stuff. Far be it for me to question anything he does. |
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:03am
| Max Simpson was one of the reasons I bought an Allis. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:28am
LOL
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Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:33am
| Wow, now max is only lucky? Just when I thought I have read the most ridiculous statements ever, a new one flys in from the south! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 12:40pm
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hmm the big end i gues i didnt read well . Most rods bearings come with the clearance tighter at top and bottom 12 and 6 oclok than they are at the split . The bearing halves at the split usually are a half to a thousandths more clearance than the top and bottom to keep rod from getting tight on the sides when going through stretch and compression of running. In other words the bearing are oblong by design for a reason. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 7:59pm
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So in knowing the bearings are oblong by design why would you oblong the circular big end of a rod. In my opinion thats a who do job ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 8:21pm
| OK I'm going to go through this again: The rods are squashed (slightly) prior to the heat treat process. The heat treat process happens and brings the oval hole close to being back to round. Then both ends of the rod are machined to a perfect circle - just like factory. The idea for the pre - distortion of the rod is so it ends up closer to a round hole after the heat treatment process so less machine work is done to get it to a perfect circle. Max understands it completely. We have had a few sets of 301 rods done by him and two set of 426 rods done with zero issues. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 8:42pm
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Flame hardening the rod should make the circle smaller so you can bore it back to standard without oblonging it in a press that could possibly cause a unseen stres crack.inmho ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: ALLISMAN32
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 8:50pm
| So on a 426 at what power level does one need to consider having the rods hardened, or is it more dependent on engine speed that could cause a failure? |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:01pm
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My first post was really for Ed. He was talking about hardened 426 rods so I thought I would chime in. I sure as hell don't know it all and never claimed to, but Max Simpson probably does. He explained his process to me on the phone and it has worked well for us. Looking back on it all I should have just emailed Ed directly. Pankenstein, I have been a member on this board for about three weeks. I had read it many times prior to being a member and enjoyed most of the posts. I use to think some of the boys were just pickin on you, but it's obvious you have it coming. Damn boy, you need to tune in more and broadcast less. Make your rods however you want to. But for you to second guess a guy (Max) who has made more power than you could possibly conceive ( most recent - 5 consecutive time SSD NTPA champ - 426 block ) is just dumb.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:04pm
| Over 50 pounds of boost and you're asking for trouble most of the time. They will bend/crush the beam from too much pressure. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 9:07pm
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Gee O.P.S. You obviously didn't read his post last month about being the smartest person on these forums! Pay proper respect!
 |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2013 at 10:04pm
| I'm just learning a lot of this stuff but if nothing else I do get a lot of laughs from these arguments. We have a guy at work who will give you a answer one day and the next say he never said that does it remind you of anyone. Lol |
Posted By: mufflerboltz
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 6:16am
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i my self have never seen an oblong bearing, I have noticed that upon removing them form a rod they stick to the side of the rod but once inserted in the rod end they are and should be a perfect circle! if they were not a person would eventually end up with on h@ll of a rod Knock! Im not saying i know everything about building motors, but i can dang well say i self taught myself and know how to read a mic to make sure i don't have weird clearances like that! I have probably built ( cant really remember exact number) 20-25 engines, all the way from single cylinders, car/truck, and diesel engines and NEVER had one blow/seize up! If we are going to oblong rod holes and such likes also egg shape the crank, should run like one huge vibrator until she blows!
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Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 6:21am
| See, the problem with Pank is that he cannot condone what he does not understand. Therefore, he must not condone much... I guess max Simpson is just lucky that his motors ran well without panks attention to detail. Mitch if you are such a rod expert why didn't you use a rod that wouldnt bend like a noodle in your motor? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:24am
I'm sure most here would agree, it would take much more than LUCK to see MP on a podium unless it was for mbuchrd's eulogy 
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:31am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:37am
| I guess what puzzles me is the difficulty controlling distortion through heat treating, proper heat treating practices minimize distortion, and I have all the respect in the world for Max Simpson, but I've never heard of distorting material prior to heat treating in order to control distortion, prior to steel reaching the austenizing temperature, it will relax and whatever stresses are in it are relieved and it will distort, usually in a very unpredictable manner, which is why thermal stress relief is the techinque used to remove stresses induced from forming and rough machining prior to finish machining and heat treating. The other factor is the material that the rods are made from in the beginning. I don't know about the 426 rods, but the majority of 125, 226 and 201 rods that I've seen were made at Atlas Drop Forge, and are nothing better than 1030 steel, salt brine quenched and tempered to about Rc 18-20 and not exactly what performance rods are made of, all the heat treating in the world won't improve garden variety materials to the level of 300M or 4340. Another point to consider is that regardless of being created from the same material, Billet rods, machined from bar stock will never equal forged rods. At the end of the day, the best rod available is forged from quality material, properly heat treated for maximum strength, and accurately machined. |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:38am
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Let's ask spankster what holds the rod bearing from spinning? He seams to think the locating tabs do that job. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:40am
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thanks ken ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 7:44am
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its obvious automotive shops arent keeping tech papers on hand or having experienced builders in the shop so heres a pdf from clevite that if you want to score points with boss for a raise by making him think your furthering your knowledge that you can down load from clevite.
http://www.stealth316.com/misc/clevite-77-rod-main-bearings.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.stealth316.com/misc/clevite-77-rod-main-bearings.pdf ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 9:22am
I would guess if he squeezed the rod across the parting line of the cap, he may have been giving himself some material for resizing. If you do like MP says and just face off the part to resize, your already to size across the part. If you squeeze the part together, then cut material from the parting line, you would have a complete clean up on the ID after resizing  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 10:08am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 10:09am
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 10:21am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 10:23am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 10:44am
 Translation,,, Another basic subject turned into a soap opera by the resident V. I. Next is breathing and walking at the same time, stay tuned! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 11:26am
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I find it real hard to beleve that someone with so much self proclaimed knowledge isn't out winning hooks and only has a pile of junk to show for forgetting (not knowing) the most basic principels of engine design. In his last thread I had to show pictures and explain in detail how to position rods, explain cap angles, etc in order to get enough clearance for his immaginary build.
------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 12:13pm
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my pictures were of engines assembled not just parts laying around like yours wi . Your always around like rob though learning from every post i write from evey detail . My students read kens post as well as Dr. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 12:23pm
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 12:25pm
| I would like to see some of your pictures pank. |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 12:28pm
| Hahah Pankey you're like herpes, always around, you never know when or where you will show up, and when you do it's painful. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 12:52pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 1:04pm
"Anibiotics" is that antibiotics retarded brother? ... Also no cure for herp. Hence why you never go away. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 1:17pm
To answer your question as to what the common denominator is. It's not hard to figure out that if we reduce pank to his constitute elements we'd be left with a pool of jizz and glitter. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 1:28pm
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well they are two on here that posted a while back that rods bend because they arent long enough .material and heat treating wasnt the problem they said it was only length . those two must have never had a twig or wire rope in their hands to know the longer it is the easier it is to bend. Kens post also tells why to stay away from rods machined out of bar stock that one of the two shows in pictures and sells on how great they are. Some people just havent ever got the assembled and ran product up to the horsepower to know the limitations yet. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 2:55pm
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Why did you want billet rods to replace the ones you bent? Changeing your ideals again. Nice job with the link proveing you wrong about locking tabs holding the rod bearing from spinning. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 3:32pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 6:55pm
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So crush holds the bearing shell. Just makeing sure as you argued for days that those tabs did all the work. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2013 at 8:52pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 5:48am
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Can you explain why you used rods forged from 1030 steel in your engine? Why you didn't heat treat them? Why you used them in a soft state when heat treating would be better? Why not buy billet rods which would be stronger than the 1030 forged and 1030 forged and heat treated. Strong enough to hold up in your engine. What material is best for billet rods 4340 or 4140 pre-hard? Both offer exponential strength charistics over your selected 1030, even if you would have heat treated. With a set of billet rods you'd still be pulling. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:27am
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With a set of forged billet rods that engine woud still be running. So yes dont compromise like i did that its a rod used in a diesel or its 4340 bar stock that they are machined from.or you will have a engine like one of mine setting scraped on a pallet ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:35am
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It's odd that Buda rods are used in 15 hp per cylinder engines. You used them in a pulling engine and expected them to hold hopeing to make 200 hp with your airflow numbers. Yet you claim that 1cfm will make 2hp. That would mean your engines are poorly designed and that you don't know much about engines, airflow or the world in general. By the looks of your crankshaft and balancing work that engine should have vibration hardened itself. Explain how you work so hard to make junk when you claim to know so much and have nothing to show. Explain why Murphys, G-Tool, R&R, and other rod manufacturers make rods from billet bar stock for the tractor pulling arena? ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:37am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:49am
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But you claimed your builds were all-out. As in all out awesome with nothing held back. Is your machine shop a non profit organization? Seams if you're as busy as you claim, budget constraints should not be an issue. With union pay scale even less of an issue. Just makeing $1 per hour instead of trying to proclaim your intelligence on all internet sites would have bought good parts. Murphys was makeing rods at that time for about $1000. Panknomics. A buck saved on important engine parts is another buck to spend on booze. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:08am
No it wouldn't. It would have still shook itself apart ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mufflerboltz
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:10am
| well I'll do one thing that you will never do Pank, that is I'll admit I was wrong a bout bearings! But i hope that doesnt give you a bigger head (which it probably will) cuz i dont really care and can man up where i am wrong unlike you! but anyways say what you will cuz you will anyhow just to hear yourself talk! Good day |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:15am
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With pank's measureing skills we've seen in being off .020" on head gaskets and his cam degreeing problems he can't measure a bearing bore accuratly enough to know if it's round like his belly or square like his head. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mufflerboltz
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:29am
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Rod Im just saying that i can handle being wrong, i don't have to change the subject or go pointing fingers at someone else to make myself look better. I know i haven't been on this forum that long and still have alot to learn about pulling but i cant stand one of those people that is "that guy" who just doesn't shut up and realize that nobody's listening and does not care about his soap box preaching!
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:41am
The answer as to why the tabs break of when the insert spins is as plain and simple as the nose on your face, they stick out. Why kind of super ingeniousness rocket scientist does it take to understand that??? Good grief Why dont you answer some questions about bushing type insert bearings for us since you know more about them than the Mfg of the bearing, their reps or anyone else. Since tabs are what keeps the rod and main inserts from spinning A- What keeps the cam bearings from spinning? B- What keeps the bushing from spinning in an idler gear, generator, distributor shaft etc? The answer is crush, same as the rods and mains. As the rep tried to tell you, if he knew his stuff, the tabs on an split type insert bushing bearing are there for two reasons 1. They locate the inserts SIDEWAYS for assembly. 2. They locate the parting line in relationship to the parting line of the rod for assembly. That they provide some VERY limited extra non-rotational force is nothing but a side affect. If they are there for what you claim they certainly do a pi$$ poor job of it as even you have read and looked at pictures and have seen that when the insert rotates they simply tear off. When they started using Aluminum rods in hi performance engines it wasn't long before they had to pin the inserts in place to keep them from rotating. Clevite soon had the inserts out and the hole size and location was more or less standardized. If your theory is correct explain why given same engine with only change being the rod material why was this only true for aluminum rods? The answer is your theory is wrong. The pins were needed because Aluminum expands at a much greater rate than any steel or iron. They expand so much that you loose crush and then the insert spins and those little locking tabs for ASSEMBLY sure aren't going to stop it, and didn't and still dont. The situation was compounded even further as certain "hi performance" inserts are ( or were) steel backed. Now you had a rod bore growing more than the OEM part and and insert growing less than the OEM part. The Bamfords diesel in my shop right now has no tabs on the inserts, none zero, notta and never did. The insert is retained by crush which is specified in the manual. Come up to the shop and we will start it up and put out a lawn chair for you so you can laugh and giggle when it slings the rod out the side, Better bring a bed role and a few years worth a food along, its been running since 1941. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 9:46am
Yabut, yabut, yabut, MP would waste your time, my time and anybody else's time arguing because he's union and gets paid by the hour. we've seen him argue with himself on this site. The more he argues, the less work he has to do (if he ever does any work). He'd probably argue with a nuclear engineer about how the reactor failed. Just because he couldn't keep the water pump running had absolutely nothing to do with the failure ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 12:43pm
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Yeah butch they help hold the bearing so in order for the bearing to move the force e is great enough to break the tabs and overcome the intefernce or crush. Not just one thing holding the bearing but two things a little insurance Mufflerbolts glad you can be taught so many on here cant like rob still arguing a rod machined from stock is stronger than even lower grade steel thats forged. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:19pm
I knew there was a use for thick styrofoam.... I just knew it would come in handy to make super light connecting rods.
The point of billet rods is to get a rod stronger than the low grade forged ones..... get a rod with custom dimensions and the ability to do the job. I bet all the billet alumnium rods are junk too.....I have a set of those for the super stock. Better call GMS and return them, get the $2750 back and buy some buda rods for it...... ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:32pm
| Make sure you use the high R value green Styrofoam the pink stuff just won't cut it! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:38pm
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Alumunium rods need changed every season. But in your case a pull every ten years they should last a lifetime .most aluminum rods are forged. If they arent send them back.forging makes softer materials stronger. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 2:20pm
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More pankey logic. Materials with 45,000-65,00 psi tensel strength like his rods are stronger than rods machined from the 4140-4340 group with tensel strength of 140,000-180,000 psi tensel strength. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 3:19pm
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Check on forging. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 4:57pm
| Marty made more passes last summer just on the wtpa circuit then you've probably made in the last 5 years pank. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:20pm
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Where did he purchase that case engine from larry he so proud of it on the allis site you know. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:33pm
| It was built by him. |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:40pm
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Didn't you get exposed in the top fuel maching thread pankey as the guy who buys engines. I read the link. Buy a competitive engine and tune it into an uncompetitive state. Then sell the parts, leak the original builders secrets. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:56pm
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I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High te sile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:57pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:11pm
HAHAHAHA Now we have heard it all. Spankster you really are a one of a kind. I think the points standings for the year shows the level of work the WI does. Spanksalot, how did your points record look this year??? Please post a link, I'm sure many others on here would like to see it.
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Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:43pm
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I watched illinazi tune a LSS one night by swapping injectors based on cylinder position takeing into account cam deflection. You should see him tune an allis to perfection with the choke blade. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:53pm
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MP making billet rods. http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx26/pankeyc/2012-01-01_16-03-11_357.mp4" rel="nofollow">  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:05pm
Hahah ended something like this....? http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s
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Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:19pm
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Get it right. He uses OSB chipboard. It's like forged wood. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:28pm
Nobody said anything about "High te sile rod loads" whatever that is. Mention was made of tensile strength of different materials. If you read what was printed in front of you, you probably could make sense of some of the information that just FLIES over your head. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:32pm
[TUBE]http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s[/TUBE]
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:41pm
What's stronger... that forged chip board or red oak? Hmm Ctucker, thanks for hyperlinking the video!
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Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:23am
| Nope no one could figure out running high rpm's is hard on rods or any other part of the engine. Stuff will break but if billet rods are made out of stronger material then the buds rod I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the billet rod is stronger or am i wrong lmao. The chip board has to be stronger its forged. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:02am
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If you make two rods from the same strength stock one cnc machined one forged which is stronger.if you make a forged rod out of a slightly weaker stock than the cnc machined which is stronger.its amazing how short the rod ratio is and how small the needle bearing rod is compared to piston size and them ole saws flat turn some rpms. A long rod man would say no way they could turn such rpms but thats not reality and thats where i live. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:14am
| If the rods are identical thickness length and so on then the billet would be equal in your first example and better in your second a chain saw is a hole different animal compared to a tractor engine. The bigger the stroke the less rpms a engine will withstand I'm not a chainsaw guy but what are they a inch and a half stroke |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 8:15am
Oh, Mitch, you must have moved. You just stated that you live in reality, when a year or so ago, the bottom of your posts said that you " live in a fantasy world and something something about a ruler named compression". I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think you moved to the reality neighbor hood. Because here in reality, no one is putting up with your crap! It's obvious by any post on any forum! ( I guess except the one where u had to use your wifes name) 
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Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 8:54am
It's been 2 pages and no attempt to answer my questions spankey. Connecting rod choices are the most important choices a builder can make in engine components. Their reputation rodes on the choices made. Connecting rods are the most important ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 9:26am
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Oh Andy,spunkster moved to reality 2 days ago when he learned that the big end of the rod attaches to the crankshaft and the little end to the piston. I can't say up or down, some engines are radial. I can't say rotating and reciprocating, that depends on the state of your engine as sometimes the laws of physics. I just can't wait to see his v-8 econo mod run....... I'm sure we all will this summer. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 12:52pm
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You guys just jealous that our shop builds performance everything from chainsaws gocarts dirt track engine drag bikes drag cars pulling trucks and tractors ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 12:55pm
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Ps you guys started the post now you realise youve cut your buddys buisness down by making people aware of connecting rods manufacturing and the falacies involved. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:02pm
| Ok Mitch give me the # of your shop and I'll give them business if they are so good... |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:17pm
| Yes pank, how bout a number , address and website? Im sure ill need your expertise on my 426!!!!! |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:20pm
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Please post a location and I'll be by on Thursday. Going to Murfreesboro Tn. pull on Friday. Might stop by, take a few pictures and post them for all to see. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: EricSWPA
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:21pm
| Let's see if moneys no option I don't think I'll go to pankeys shop id be off to see rich lustik since I know him fairly well. And I have a hunch he's forgot more than some ever knew |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:22pm
Wait, what? Speak English!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPHuE5pDlEs&feature=youtu.be&t=48s" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPHuE5pDlEs&feature=youtu.be&t=48s
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