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ACinSC 
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 Topic: D 15 won't back up
Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 12:16pm |
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Been sitting in my shop several months . Tried to back it out and it won't move . Trans is full and it was fine when I parked it . When I take it out of reverse and let the clutch out it goes forward . Only have neutral with the power director in neutral . Guess the trans is hung up ? Any ideas ? THANKS !!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 1:57pm |
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i have had that on a B before.. Shift forks or pins get WORN and let things flop around . your stuck in forward all the time.. Put it in Neutral and you have forward, put it in reverse and it locks up.. On the B, you remove the side cover and repair the pins / slides / shift fork slop.... D should be similar.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 2:26pm |
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Thanks Steve . Guess I'll have a look . Hope the problem is easy to see and fix . Never been in a trans before . Thanks again !
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Leadoff
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 2:51pm |
ACinSC
I had similar shifting issues with my 1965 D15 II. Sometimes I could correct the alignment by carefully moving the shifter around, not forcing, or as noted above, going in thru the side plate (need to drain oil) to realign the shifting mechanism to "neutral position"- no gears engaged.
My problem, I believe, was wear on the ball at the bottom of the shifter. Research reading on this forum showed this to be a common problem with some shifters/transmissions on some of the older AC models. Some guys solved the problem by building up the wear area on the ball.
I solved my problem by purchasing a used D15 shifter, that had minimal wear on the shifter ball, and have had no issues since.
A good AC friend, former Dealer/mechanic, told me that forcing the shifter into gear or not shifting properly, was a very bad thing to do with AC tractors, and would lead to gear wear and lockup problems. Now I am really careful when shifting gears
There is a lot of good info on this topic in the forum archives
Good luck getting going again
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 3:04pm |
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Thanks Robert . Just checked the archives and didn't see anything much . Maybe I didn't go far enough back . We actually have a spare trans but the side plate and shift linkage? are missing . I see Agco has a shifter pin listed . I'll have to pull the cover after I drain the trans and see what I can figure out . Thanks , again !
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Leadoff
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 3:25pm |
ACinSC
I just tried a search, use the advanced search feature, use "shifter problems" as the key words, and select "any date" in the "Find Posts" drop down menu for how far back you want to go. My computer snorted a bit, and after about a minute produced three pages of "shifter problems" threads. Lots of good reads/advice
Also to clarify, (I might not have the correct terminology), I am calling the "shifter" the lever between your legs, with the rubber on the end, that the operator moves. As you know, on the D14/D15 it has an unusual bend to it before it enters the transmission housing.
Good luck. I found it very frustrating to sort thru this problem, especially when it happened in a bad spot!!!
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 01 Jun 2021 at 3:49pm |
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Good info Robert ! Guess it's kinda/sorta lucky that my tractor messed up trying to back out of my shop ? THANKS !
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ACinSC
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 3:20pm |
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Have the shifter and side plate off . Took some pics that my fav son should post soon . THANKS !!
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WeisAC2
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 4:12pm |
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Leadoff
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 5:52pm |
ACinSC
Great pics
Getting the Tractor in Neutral Can you line up the Notches on the top of the shifting mechanism you just removed - so they form a perfect rectangle or row perpendicular to the centre line of the tractor. This Notch Row would be where the shifter ball sits, right in the middle. In Neutral, the Operator can move the shifter, perfectly right or left, and the shifter ball moves sideways in the Notch Row (and none of the Notches should move)
The fork associated with each Notch assembly, should move a gear, or gears, forwards or backwards. One Notch at a time is displaced by the shifter ball, when the Operator selects a gear, and then deselects.
You can see how critical it is to have the Shifter in the correct position, so it ONLY CONTACTS ONE NOTCH AT A TIME.
Also try and determine if your shifter ball has much play as it moves thru the gears, how much contact it is making with the notches
I played around with mine once I figured out how it functioned, placed the side plate back in the tractor (no oil yet) with the Notches/forks/gears in the Neutral position.
Look down the shifter hole from the Operators position to ensure still in Neutral, and try rolling the tractor to ensure no gears are engaging. Then drop the shifter into its position and try shifting gears (without the tractor engine running).
You should be able to tell if the shifting and gear engagement is working properly or not.
Once you are happy with how it feels, you can tighten up the side plate, start the tractor, and go thru the gears again with power this time. Moving the tractor a foot or so is all that is needed. Then you can replace the transmission oil
This is how I stick handled (Canadian hockey term) thru my "Shifter Problem" situation
I do not have any other advice from my experience regarding the gears, wear on the forks etc.
Hope this helps you with your project.
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 6:09pm |
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Thanks Robert ! Did you replace the pins ? My shifter ball has a small flat spot . Doesn't look bad to me , but what do I know ? I'll get back out there tomorrow . Thanks again !!
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DrAllis
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 7:36pm |
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The picture of the transmission gears shows that it is in SECOND gear and REVERSE gear at the same time. Your description isn't very clear " won't move" should have probably said " it kills the engine if I try to make it move". How in Sam Hill it broke sitting in the shed, I'll never understand. I've never had to rebuild any of the shifter mechanism on any D-14-15, so I don't understand how it got out of synch just sitting in the shed.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 8:25pm |
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Yeah Doc , it's dies when I try to back up . I don't know what happened either . Bad mo jo maybe . I'd very much like to fix it so it doesn't happen again . Thanks !
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DrAllis
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 8:40pm |
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Well, at some time in past history, someone has had the shift cover off. The blue RTV is the dead give-away.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 8:48pm |
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Yeah I've seen that blue silicone elsewhere . Thanks again
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Leadoff
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 8:52pm |
ACinSC
I did not replace the pins, only the shifter. The replacement shifter ball had more bulk than the old shifter, and that seemed to be enough to make the difference with keeping the ball tight/firm with the Notch. Also the Notches were well worn from many years of being rubbed by the shifter.
Your ball looks good, but the flat spot might be an issue. I remember seeing specs quoted on the required size of the ball for a good snug fit. I was surprised how much a difference a slightly larger ball would make. In some of the examples quoted in the Forum, the guys who built up the size of the ball welded/ground smooth/dropped shifter into position/tried shifting/made minor corrections/repeated the exercise until they were comfortable with the fit
You are in a good position to check your Shifter "snugness" as you shift thru the gears
One other point I forgot to mention that was passed on to me by my old AC Dealer Mechanic friend......when shifting, place slight downward pressure on the shifter using the palm of your hand, as you move it to the desired gear position. Also, follow the shift pattern very carefully to ensure the best alignment with the ball and the desired Notch
Good luck with your project
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Leadoff
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Posted: 02 Jun 2021 at 9:17pm |
ACinSC
Just reading the observations above re Second and Reverse Gear and tractor can't move etc............sounds very similar to my situation
I concluded I needed a tighter fit between the shifter ball and the Notches and Clean up my shifting methods to try and follow the shift pattern properly
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 5:47am |
Ok, the 'cure' is to go buy a 'parts tractor' and just before you remove this and that, get it 'up and running, now you'll need another ... 'parts tractor' and just before you remove this and that, get it 'up and running, now you'll need another, now you'll need another...
'parts tractor' and just before you remove this and that, get it 'up and running, now you'll need another
THAT'S how to keep #1 running.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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ACinSC
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 10:45am |
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Think what I need to do is put the side plate in place with a couple bolts . Then use the shifter or a screwdriver from the top to align the shifter notches and hopefully the trans into neutral ? Then test to make sure it's really in neutral ? THANKS so much Robert for your help . I have to order a gasket and may also get 2 pins . Agco seems to stock them and they're $14 each . Mine look ok to me , just worn enough to be shiny . THANKS for the help everyone !
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Leadoff
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 10:52am |
ACinSC
Good plan. Good luck
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 12:32pm |
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Oh well , that didn't work . Gonna pull the fender so I'll have more room to maybe see what's going on . THANKS !
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Leadoff
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 7:35pm |
ACinSC
Good idea, that is a tight area.
Determine Correct Notches/Forks/Gear positions I was able to see which gear/gears moved forwards and backwards from the Neutral position for each Notch assembly. Once you have the fender removed, and are able to get a better view of the transmission area see if you can make that determination. It is a bit tricky as your view will be obstructed by the side plate, so a bit of trial and error as you inset the plate/forks and remove to figure out the applicable gears for each Notch assembly
In simple terms, in the Neutral position, Notches forming a line from the top, no gear should be engaged with another gear, and the gears are held in position by the forks. As you move thru the shifting sequence, one Notch movement will move gears/gear into an engaged position, with the power gears
It is a bit like solving a puzzle, but you know which gears are interconnected from the shifting pattern. If I recall, 1st and 4th share a Notch assembly, 3rd with 2nd, and Reverse is seperate in the middle. Knowing this will help you figure out the Notches/forks/gear pairings
Hope this will help you with your project............Rob
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Leadoff
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 10:23pm |
ACinSC
Found a couple of threads that might give you some additional info to help you sort out your transmission/shifting issue.....
The YouTube is very basic, and there are others on YT, but it provides the essentials of how a simple tractor transmission works. The D15 transmission thread is about gear jumping, and gear wear, but has a couple of pics of a transmission, and comments on work involved in repairs
Hopefully you can determine if your transmission/gears/forks assembly is in the proper alignment, once you complete your inspections
Good luck with your project
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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Leadoff
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Posted: 03 Jun 2021 at 11:40pm |
ACinSC
I was reading this thread info over and figured we had not specifically checked off an important item....
Something that needs to be followed up.........Dr Allis comments above, re second gear and reverse gear engaged at same time.....that needs to be corrected
Perhaps you have already, if not..........
When I compare your pic to the one in the Yesterday Tractor D15 thread (previous note) there are some differences in positions of the gears. I am assuming the D15 thread pic shows the transmission in Neutral (maybe not), but your pic gear alignment is not in Neutral (according to Dr Allis)
Key message,,,,,,,,,,gears need to be in Neutral position before you re-install the side plate/forks which should also be in the Neutral position
You can verify all gears are in the Neutral position by rocking the tractor by hand and/or cranking the engine (not starting) a bit
When I performed my D15 adjustments/upgrades I had to move the gears a bit to ensure alignment with the forks as I was reinstalling the side plate
Good luck with your inspection/re install
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 6:59am |
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More good info Robert . Maybe I can figure something out ? Sure not going to be an easy fix . I'm very thankful for your help .
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 8:04am |
You have to slide all the gears into neutral.. You have to put the side plate and forks in the neutral position. You wiggle the plate and try to align the forks as you slide it together. Yes, it takes some time and some wiggle... You have to have all gears in neutral before you start.
When you THINK, you have it together, put in 1-2 bolts and snug them up.. try shifting.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Leadoff
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 9:41am |
steve(ill)
Excellent description of the steps required
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1963 D17D Series III. 1965 D15 Series II. 1965 D17 Series IV. 1975 185. 1978 716H. 1979 716H. 1965 780 Harvester/1R&DC. 1957 Model 73 SC 4 Furrow Plow
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ACinSC
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 10:08am |
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THANKS Steve and Robert ! Anyone have a pic of the gears when the trans is in neutral , or a description ? I've pushed on the side plate notches a little , but they haven't moved . Are they hard to align by hand ? THANKS !!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 12:36pm |
the side plate has 3 shafts that the forks mount to.. you can see a PLUG where the shaft goes thru each bushing.. I think there is a ball and spring DETENT at that position. PUSH on the end of each shaft, or bump with a hammer and you should see the shaft jump to the next detent positon... You may be able to see a NOTCH in one of the shafts where the detent sets when the shaft is moved.
you should be able to use your SHIFT KNOB position to see the forks are in neutral... then look at the forks and measure between them and position the GEARS back and forth ( put them in neutral) so they will align with the forks.
Edited by steve(ill) - 04 Jun 2021 at 12:48pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Jun 2021 at 12:45pm |
I dont have a D15 manual handy.. Here is a WD shift plate and forks.. you can see the SPRINGS and BALLS that are the detents.. Thats why the shafts appear to be "stuck"..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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