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can a cut-out relay be repaired? |
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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The picture is from a 1949 Allis B #96201. I assume it's bad because I can only get an ammeter reading by using a jumper around the relay. The name on the relay is "Echlin". I could find no name or serial number on the generator.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 51138 |
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Yes it can be repaired, but not for the cost of a new one. That regulator should be available at any Napa store...
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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DSeries4 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7293 |
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Replace it. They are cheap.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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Thanks. I thought they might be easy to fix after looking at the internals.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Fred in Pa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9175 |
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That is not a cut out
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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Fred: Do you know what it could be? I told Brenda K at SLE that it was a Voltage Regulator, but she said those aren't used on the Allis B. She was going to check with her shop guys to see what they think.
If it's the wrong part, maybe that is why I'm not getting a ammeter reading through it?
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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dfwallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 478 |
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It is a regulator. Hopefully there's a part number on it somewhere.
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1952 CA13092
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jaybmiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22089 |
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Google shows it as an Echlin 27-31 , 12 volt voltage regulator. Since all B's were 6 volt.... begs the question... is yours 6 or 12 volt ? Can you read tag on the generator ??
Edited by jaybmiller - 08 Jul 2024 at 6:10pm |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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mdm1 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Onalaska, WI Points: 2613 |
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Kinda neat they show you how to polarize it.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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a cutout would have TWO TERMINALS and ONE COIL inside...( and be used on a 6 volt systesm) .... a VOLTAGE REGULATOR would have 3 terminals ( or 4) and 2 -3 coils inside..( and would be used on a 12 v system.. but some 6v have regulators).
Edited by steve(ill) - 08 Jul 2024 at 6:55pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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PaulB ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4578 |
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A NAPA store actually have a tractor part ![]() ![]() ![]() Edited by PaulB - 08 Jul 2024 at 7:33pm |
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11709 |
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That is a voltage regulator. Look on the bottom of the unit. There's probably a part number stenciled on it. Dave is right. Echlin is part of Napa. Look real close on that Gennie. It may have "12V" stamped on the chassis. (body) Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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Some further messy information:
1.could find no part number on regulator. Jay's eBay picture shows it stamped in blue ink on galvanized base next to BAT terminal. My base is painted black, with no part number visible. 2. I must have a regulator for a 12 volt system based on (a) Jay's link to the 12 volt eBay part, and (b) mine has 3 terminals and 3 coils inside, which must confirm that it is a 12 volt part as per Steve's info. 3. I believe my Allis B wants to be a 6 volt (a) I replaced the old dead battery with a 6 volt [I assume the old battery was 6 volt - but maybe not] (b) It has a generator, not an alternator, (c) the battery cables are heavier than the CA that Steve B helped me convert to 12 volt, (d) BUT I had to replace the 12 volt solenoid with a 6 volt to get the starter to work, (e) BUT I had to replace the 12 volt coil with a 6 volt to get the spark plugs to fire, (f) BUT the regulator is a 12 volt, (g) maybe the old deceased owner was in process of converting to a 12 volt system? 4. I cannot find a name or serial number on the generator. 5. An interesting find when I wired brushed the 3 terminals to get a better connection. (a) the now visible FLD terminal was connected to the generator's positive post with 16g wire. (b) the now visible ARM terminal was connected to the generator's negative post wire heavier gauge black wire. I think the FLD and ARM wires are reversed - can anyone confirm? 6. I think I flashed the FLD terminal several times to the positive BAT, because.... Obviously I believe this was wrong - should flash the ARM terminal to BAT. At first light tomorrow, I'll try to right some of these wrongs. Maybe it will help, but maybe not.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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you need to figure out what you WANT... THe old 6 volt systems were POSITIVE GROUND.. thats why some of your wires might look BACKWARD.... Most of the NEW 12 v systems a NEGATIVE GROUND..... a BATTERY has a series of 2 volt CELLS.. If you have 3 round CAPS on top, you have 6v battery... If you have 6 round CAPS ( or two long ones over 3 cells each )... then you have a 12V battery.
Better figure out FIRST what you want to do... stick with the OLD 6v or go with the NEW 12 V ...... 12v battery, 12v coil, 12v regulator... all go TOGETHER.... dont mix and match. It IS POSSIBLE that they guy took a 6v REGULATOR and put on inplace of the OLD CUT OUT...... How does it CRANK and START with the 6v battery ?? If that is acceptable , then maybe you need a 6v REGULATOR...... The OLD LIGHT SWITCH had a resistor on it to act as an "amp output regulator" along with the CUTOUT.... the new "REGULATOR" would no longer use the light switch resistor...
Edited by steve(ill) - 08 Jul 2024 at 8:21pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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MOST 6v systems have the POSITIVE side of the battery GROUNDED... YOURS ??
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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discussion with a drawing....
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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Steve:
Yes, mine has a positive ground. I'm happy with the 6 volt system and it seems to start and run well, after spending some time and money on it. So I plan to keep it 6 volt. My next step in trying to get the generator to charge the battery, is to correct the FLD and ARM wiring on the 12 volt voltage regulator. So just to clarify since it's a 6 volt positive ground: the ARM terminal should be connected to the positive post on the generator, and the FLD terminal should be connected to the ground post on the generator. I am not hopeful that this will solve my problem, since it's 12 volt and not a 6 volt regulator. I'll then see if Brenda Knauss from Sandy Lake Equip can determine what replacement 6 volt Cutout Relay I would need to be compatible with my unknown generator model. If that fails, I'll take my generator and voltage regulator to a generator repair shop and see if they can sort out what I need to make it work. I read through the link you sent and noted that OP said he replaced his cutout relay with a voltage regulator, as he understood the regulator replaced the need for a 3 position light switch (1st position is low charge, 2nd position is higher charge, and 3 position is light switch). Again, thanks to everyone for their help.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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Fred in Pa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9175 |
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To save wasting time n money ,take generator to a good electric shop ,and go from there . Don't get all confused to point you make a bigger mess .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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I read through the link you sent and noted that OP said he replaced his cutout relay with a voltage regulator, as he understood the regulator replaced the need for a 3 position light switch (1st position is low charge, 2nd position is higher charge, and 3 position is light switch).
YEs, that is correct.. A CUTOUT needs the light switch resistor.. A VOLTAGE REGULATOR replaces both of them... I would BET that your present regulator is a 6V type... You need something similar. A local shop MIGHT be a good idea to ease your mind. They will get you something similar to the picture i posted above.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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DO NOT BUY THIS.... just showing you such an animal does exist... 6V pos ground.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dfwallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 478 |
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I bought a 6V regulator from Steiner. I took it and the gen to a shop and he made sure they both worked properly together. And he made sure I knew that you DO NOT need the extra .1 ohm resistor that comes with the kit. The gen/regulator combination supplied the correct voltage and control as-is. I did rewire the switch such that the first position is lights now.
Edited by dfwallis - 09 Jul 2024 at 10:52am |
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1952 CA13092
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Dale (Stonelick) ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Jun 2019 Location: Stonelick, Ohio Points: 179 |
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Interesting that the "polarize" instructions are different between the 6 volt and the 12 volt regulators. For 12 volt you flash the ARM terminal, and for the 6 volt you flash the FLD terminal.
So I have no clue on how to correctly wire a 12 volt regulator, much less a 12 volt regulator on a positive ground with probably a 6 volt generator. I couldn't find any online Echlin wiring instructions. Still waiting on Brenda to see if she has any advise. I'll also try to send message to Steiner tractor. I'll also search to see if there is a generator repair shop close to me.
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1951 CA - 1944 C - 1949 B - Kubota M6800
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dfwallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 478 |
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The 6V regulator I bought you flash the ARM terminal.
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1952 CA13092
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 740 |
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Please, please, DO NOT attempt to use a 12 Volt regulator on a 6 Volt battery! ![]() If you have a 12 Volt battery and a 12 Volt regulator on a 6 Volt generator, the generator will put out 12 volts. For a while. Maybe for a long while. Maybe not.
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Riprock ![]() Bronze Level Access ![]() Joined: 13 Feb 2021 Location: Tennessee Points: 26 |
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The regulator in the ebay picture shows polarizing instructions for a "B" type used by early fords. You removed the field wire and touched it to the bat terminal. Delco used "A" circuit where you use a jumper between arm & Bat terminals to polarize. On a delco if you jumper from fld. terminal to ground the generator should charge wide open, bypassing the regulator. Never touch field to bat on an A circuit.
Edited by Riprock - 09 Jul 2024 at 1:08pm |
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mdm1 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Onalaska, WI Points: 2613 |
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Try to find out what make the generator is and get a 6v voltage regulator to match it. You can then use a regular light switch if you have lights. It will charge better and you can leave it 6v. Just a suggestion.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 79586 |
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Terry is right... I was just showing that Echlin DID make a 6v POSITIVE GROUND voltage regulator... YOU DONT WANT THAT SPECIFIC ONE.. but you DO WANT a 6V.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 740 |
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Excellent post. The original poster showed a photo of an "A" circuit regulator, it is crucial to have the correct type.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 740 |
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A while back there was a young man posting on here about his WD tractor that had what turned out to be a Ford (?) IIRC, generator scabbed onto it by a previous owner. Never assume!
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dfwallis ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 478 |
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Slightly peripherally, my original switch was completely missing so I bought a rebuilt one from B&B, even though I fully planned to go with a regulator. I wanted to maximize originality with only a few minor exceptions (regulator and some add-ons). The switch rebuild was top notch quality I might add.
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1952 CA13092
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