camshaft

jpankey wrote: wi50 wrote: What you really need to do is look through those old threads, even the one called "thinking of top fuel machining" from that mlpankey fella. It's to bad I cleaned out my file mamager and the pictures were deleted, you could read on and on in some of these threads where we (meaning several forum members) taught that pan key fella how to get rods to clear, how to degree cams, basic math and geometry principals, etc. What does jpankey stand for there "jeaous pankey" Anyway on a serious note your existing camshaft is about 20 degrees of duration short of what a good lower rpm pulling cam for one of these engines should be. What this means in simple terms is that your valves are open and moving air for a certain amount of crankshaft rotation. The engine can take advantage of more time to breathe, a longer duration can will do that. If the ranging has to much time to breathe meaning the duration is to long, it will pomp air back out the ports instead of trapping it and using it. If you look in your other thread there Blue, "where to get a cam" you'll find a prime example of specs for such a cam posted by pankey. A cam in that area will make your engine sound like a sick air compressor and you won't have any problem lugging, it'll kill plenty quick. One of the advantages to a ground cam is that the valves will open at a faster rate, meaning less degrees of crankshaft rotation to get the valve open and in a range where it flows more air.You can also controll when the events happen by how the cam is ground and WHERE you position it, meaning how you time it to the crankshaft. I don't expect for a lot of people to understand how to measure out and degree a cam..... just don't take much previously posted information on this forum as it'll be a waste of your time. Spend $20 and buy a good book on these subjects. I degree the cams, lock things togather and mark the gear when I send a cam out. Then there's little question. But people will still do something wrong, call and complain. Then once they get the plug wires back where they belong in the correct fireing order things are fine. Now I'm just giveing examples but i've learned a lot selling parts, never assume that everyone knows everything for sure. But those who are willing to learn will do well. I've typically got some cams on hand if you want one, if you want some specs on what works well, I posted some recently, or send a pm pm, call sometime. I've gotten cams from certain grinders that just don't work well. It seams that everyone thinks lift is important and and wants as much as possible, it's better to have a little less with a little rounder nose, holding the valve at a lesser maximum height but for a longer period of time. Some engines are different, but you don't have to worry about these Allis is heads flowing much much air. One of the ways to reduce the lift on the cam grind for a certain base circle to have a nose on the lobe is to use murphys 1.85 rockers . the less the lifter rises the less the pushrod flexes. .300 lobe lift x 1.85 rocker is .535 valve lift at .020 lash .

you really shouldn't worry about someone degreeing a cam in a block and crank that's not the one your going to use . cam will have a centerline from grinder .installing it straight up would be as close as phasing it to a crankshaft installed in a block that your not using either piece of.

Edited by mgburchard - 28 Aug 2013 at 6:36pm

Ken(MI) wrote: Something about the story doesn't add up, I can not imagine him running out of power in 4500 or 5000, especially in first gear with what you describe unless it has some serious tuning and set up issues going on, or he was telling you tall tales.  A good running stock 45 weighted to 4500 lbs is just about impossible to stall in first gear, regardless of what the track is.

well he may have been telling tales, but there are four or five other guys who say they saw it when he was building it, or maybe he was confused and he had it in third instead of first i really cant  be a hundred percent sure. but i know he is far from stock i dont know, maybe we put more weight in the sled than others??

Edited by blue924.9 - 28 Aug 2013 at 9:21am

Just because that guy has all that work done, (supposedly) doesn't mean it works. Don't get carried away. Do what you can and dial in your combination.

I agree with Ken/MI right at the beginning of this thread, and Kip right at the end. If you're limited to 2.5 mph, as a rule, a 45' engine would be perfect right in that general vicinity. IMHO, that 201 with a 45' crank installed, and a set of larger bore M&W's would work quite nicely. This would keep your wallet in check, and still give you a nice small inch motor to "play" with and dial it into the class as you learn. Kip is a perfect example. Small inch motor, dialed in right makes quite a bit of power for the class "fit". You can still have fun and not go broke. As for a cam, Barney used to widdle camshafts especially

usap allows the two trans setup in farmstock no different than a stepdown in a wc they told me. At 3mph it helps a lot.

 This is only a suggestion. Mitch is gone, let him be.    leave out anything that dosn't apply to camshaft  selection.  Do include pertinate info, and you did. Cu.in., rpm, speed limit, weights you want to run, tire size, and you mentioned that you didn't intend to pull elsewhere, so you were stuck for now with this for criteria.     It makes no difference if you have a wd or wd45, I said your criteria called for the wd45 power level.   I did not say to use a 175 cam, I didn't want to confuse you further , read my post I said  175 cam grind. Any  real puller has no problem understanding what I said or what is meant. Only a  rookie or a newcomer  or a drama queen here would  reply like you have right down to your last post. 

blue, Lighten up a bit, the drama Gary was talking about skipping over is the BS from the TVA crew. Basically ignore that and don't even reply to it.

Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 25 Aug 2013 at 7:01pm

blue924.9 wrote: well now that i have time and pank is gone so i can get some legit answers i can ask this. as you all probably know by now i am planning on rebuilding the motor on my 1950 wd, i am going with 4.125 bore and 4.5 stroke for 240 cubic inches. so far the plan is to stay at stock rpms, i will be pulling 3500 4000 and 4500 pound stock class dictating that i run first gear, so 2.5 mph and will hopefully be rolling on 14.9 by 28 rubber instead of my 13.6 by 28s though they seem to work very well, especially on hard packed tracks. i was wondering what camshaft i should get and where i should get it, every where is an option and not just guys from this site, thanks guys

how is that slamming pank? you ever try to start a thread with him on, nothing but bull crap, got to the point where no one would answer cuase it would stir him back up again. as for your answer i appreciate it and i am not questioning it but would just like some other grinds or kinds for a comparison, also ever since i gave you more detail as to what i was doing and clarified that i had a wd not a wd 45 everyone seems to think that i turned into a attention hog drama queen. all i did was ask a question

Gary, is that little guy saying " D'OH!"?
Mitch Burchard, this whole board has yet to find a legitimate person that has heard one run!! Maybe you can provide us with some video, like WI50 did. Did he have one at his close to home Crossroads pull?

Edited by THE-MAN - 25 Aug 2013 at 3:52pm

What you really need to do is look through those old threads, even the one called "thinking of top fuel machining" from that mlpankey fella. It's to bad I cleaned out my file mamager and the pictures were deleted, you could read on and on in some of these threads where we (meaning several forum members) taught that pan key fella how to get rods to clear, how to degree cams, basic math and geometry principals, etc.

What does jpankey stand for there "jeaous pankey"

Anyway on a serious note your existing camshaft is about 20 degrees of duration short of what a good lower rpm pulling cam for one of these engines should be. What this means in simple terms is that your valves are open and moving air for a certain amount of crankshaft rotation. The engine can take advantage of more time to breathe, a longer duration can will do that. If the ranging has to much time to breathe meaning the duration is to long, it will pomp air back out the ports instead of trapping it and using it. If you look in your other thread there Blue, "where to get a cam" you'll find a prime example of specs for such a cam posted by pankey. A cam in that area will make your engine sound like a sick air compressor and you won't have any problem lugging, it'll kill plenty quick.

One of the advantages to a ground cam is that the valves will open at a faster rate, meaning less degrees of crankshaft rotation to get the valve open and in a range where it flows more air.You can also controll when the events happen by how the cam is ground and WHERE you position it, meaning how you time it to the crankshaft. I don't expect for a lot of people to understand how to measure out and degree a cam..... just don't take much previously posted information on this forum as it'll be a waste of your time. Spend $20 and buy a good book on these subjects.

I degree the cams, lock things togather and mark the gear when I send a cam out. Then there's little question. But people will still do something wrong, call and complain. Then once they get the plug wires back where they belong in the correct fireing order things are fine. Now I'm just giveing examples but i've learned a lot selling parts, never assume that everyone knows everything for sure. But those who are willing to learn will do well.

I've typically got some cams on hand if you want one, if you want some specs on what works well, I posted some recently, or send a pm pm, call sometime. I've gotten cams from certain grinders that just don't work well. It seams that everyone thinks lift is important and and wants as much as possible, it's better to have a little less with a little rounder nose, holding the valve at a lesser maximum height but for a longer period of time. Some engines are different, but you don't have to worry about these Allis is heads flowing much much air.

Edited by wi50 - 25 Aug 2013 at 10:12am

you know my boss and your brother pointed out the lifter diameter as charles at cam crafts does on his web site to a fellow that started a topic called crossbreading a while back. Be a good title to search

The oil pump gears is a fairly simple to get around . When you remove the cam to be ground remove the oil pump gear from oil pump that cm core donor came from then which ever pump you decide to run will just need that gear installed on it to match you cam. The engines that come from boss mans shop has the pump with no bypass for the extra oil pressure to ensure oil wedge and offset the extra pressure the increased power is exerting or loading bearings with

DrAllis wrote:  In many Antique Pulling Clubs a morphidite "two transmission" chassis like that wouldn't be allowed. I've seen a couple tractors from Missouri that have the torque tube completely removed from "WD's" to lighten them up another 100 pounds and that also wouldn't be allowed in a majority of Antique Clubs. If you can't wheel 38" rubber, you need more engine, not slower gears.

Telling the truth there brother bigger is better lol

AaronSEIA wrote: I'll throw this question out there.  If he is basically running a bone stock 4 1/8 overbore WD45 engine at stock rpm and on stock rubber, will anything other than a stock cam really be worth it?  I guess I could see a 175 cam helping because they did have more power, but how much of that comes from higher rpm and compression?  If he wants to stay "stock", then 175 pistons on the 45 crank and a 175 cam would be the way to go, right? AaronSEIA

 YES .