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jaybmiller 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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 Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 6:06am |
YUCK !!!!! i have to wonder just HOW it got that bad, though I suspect stored outside, no covers ?? It'd be nice to 'bolt on' another carb and get running instead of converting to gas. 'Little' details like gas tank, fuelpump,etc. might be a LOT more than an LP carb.... At least you've got the carb 'tag' numbers so Mr. Google can find you a carb ! 1st hit.... using 13596a...4516566-2
another.... https://www.carbkits.com/catalog/details/21 $71 for the kit !!
My vote... new LP carb
Jay BTW you're having a MUCH better day than me, and the Sun just came up...
Edited by jaybmiller - 07 Nov 2020 at 6:11am
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 7:03am |
Jay, My friend Jim also found a rebuild kit with a float too. I may get that.
On the propane side, this small diaphragm unit on the side of the regulator has me puzzled. It has not been hooked up (no wires) for a long time. The machine must have ran without it working. Wires are long gone. Ok This is a micro switch which I found a similar one on line:
Maybe this is not hooked up because it has been replaced with the switch ahead of the regulator. I Think it may be doing the same function? Stopping the flow of fuel when the engine is off. Then it opens the fuel port when the key is opened. So Maybe I could just block off this where it enters the regulator?? Now on the carb: If it runs on Propane does the inside of the carb need all the gas items working?? Probably not. So if that's the correct logic the gas items could not be installed and it still should run on propane?? Humm? May try to see if I can get propane through the regulator first?
Thank for the support! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 07 Nov 2020 at 7:05am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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lessersivad
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Joined: 20 Oct 2020
Location: Michigan
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Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 4:11pm |
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Are there any numbers or manufacturer names on the components. Impco was a pretty popular brand.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 07 Nov 2020 at 6:07pm |
lessersivad, These are Beam brand regulator parts. I removed the small microvalve diaphragm unit. Put the regulator back in place and tried getting LPG through it. Nothing except a hiss of air pressure. Went back to the hose coming from the tank and just a hiss of pressure there too. So I have borrowed the tank from the local garage again. Will try that in the morning. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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pirlbeck
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Location: West Central IA
Points: 225
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Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 6:57am |
The best place I have found for propane parts and service is in the Twin Cites.
Call Dave or Phil at Carb and Turbo, 952-445-3910. They are the official tech reps for Impco and are great guys, and they are very helpful.
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Brad in WA
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Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Location: Lynden,WA
Points: 194
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Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 8:49am |
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Chris, I would try to fix the propane system, if you're gonna use it in your shop the exhaust fumes are much less than gas.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 11:02am |
Thanks guys for the information and contact info too. I did some more research and found a lot of good info right on this site in older posts by Mr.goodwrench and Dave Kamp too. So I am in learning mode. I do like the idea of getting this running on propane. So the tank I own would only let mostly compressed gas out of the tank. The tank I am borrowing lets a stream of cold LPG out of the shut off solenoid just prior to the regulator. So I may have a bad tank?? Anyway I am thinking I can put the carb back together without the bad "gas" parts, and maybe get this to run on propane after all. What I dont know is if the propane when atomized in the venture has to pass through any orifices in the carb? Or does it just low up into the intake?? Here is the LPG shut off and filter. This seems to be working fine Turns on and off with the key. Had it apart and seems OK.
This is the small diaphragm that was on the back of the regulator and had a small hose going down to a line on the intake manifold above the carb. I have currently removed this and put in a pipe plug where it and the vacuum line attached at the back of the regulator. This microvalve was not functioning anyway due to no wires being hooked up to it And I assume the other shut off replaced it? Could be way wrong on all this!
1/4 inch fine thread pipe plug, brass installed:
Just a shot of where the carb was/ goes.
This is the venturi that allows LPG to enter the system air stream ahead of the cab about 3 inches. It is open (not plugged) May not have the set screw adjusted properly? But LPG should be able to flow if it wants? Not sure how critical these adjustments/ fine tuning are to get flow? I assume it will pick up a vacuum as the cylinders begin to pull air in?
Continuing to learn. Thanks for the support!
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 08 Nov 2020 at 11:04am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:21pm |
Folks, OK the frustration factor has set in! Maybe propane is real simple, but its not working over here! I cannot get propane to pass through the regulator. There I said it and feel beter. I put the carb back together without the float and needle valve and seat. Plugged all the open ports on the carb. So I will do some more research. Here is the carb installed, at least its cleaner!
Here I had a hose from the mainfold extension to the regulator. Not sure it helped??
Still no start: Maybe not holding my mouth just right?? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 29 Nov 2020 at 9:38am |
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The carburetor is gas unit. The forklift has a LPG conversion.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 2:30pm |
Joe, I had missed your post. Just came back here to find the carb tag numbers. Thank you for your comments. I have a lot to learn. Now that you mention this the Propane does kind of look like a add on unit in front of the carb. So I was only seconds away from ordering a kit to rebuild the gas side of this carb. I may go ahead and do that. Sure would like to see this move from its current position. Do you have any other suggestions/ recommendations on gas vs propane? I assume I could add a small gas tank and gravity feed the carb like on other Allis tractors? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 3:22pm |
OK, Right or wrong ordered a kit from Merrill at Carb Refactory, Also new float. So i will try to move this over to a gas carb. Sometimes you dont know what move to make but need to do something to get things off the dime. I will let you know how that all turns out.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 1:01pm |
Folks, Spoke with a friend that has a friend that used to work at forklift dealer/ shop. He may come over at some point and try to get this running on propane. Of course I had just ordered the carb kit for gas, and its on its way too. So maybe with that and a person that knows something about these machines, it may run? I did pounded the removable side covers back to near straight condition. This is different since these don't have a lot of actual sheet metal. These side covers are about 1/8 inch thick! Rugged to take some abuse. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Eric B
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Posted: 02 Dec 2020 at 2:16pm |
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Sounds good! Either way you'll have it running soon. If restoring the propane system gets to be more of a pain than you want - gasoline is the easy way. Originally the reason for using propane on the forklifts was for safer indoor use and in your case that isn't really the issue. Being all used to tractors we don't let them run indoors for very long anyway to stay away from carbon monoxide. Once your F40 gets the smell of gas it will wake up and you'll be pleased I know. Once you get used to having a forklift you really don't want to be without one.
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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 8:02am |
Eric, Thanks for the support. I would like to be able to have this at least move! Bunch to learn about these old units. I have never had or operated a forklift. So stay out of my way for a while! Should be interesting. It happens to be in the center of my high bay. About the worst place to be located from trying to move other things around. But may get me to get it going too. Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 03 Dec 2020 at 4:39pm |
Folks, I got my "gas" carb rebuild kit today. Good looking kit plus the new float. Was good to talk to someone who knows these carbs. (tip of the hat to Jay Miller) Carb kit shop Business card reads: The Carburetor Refactory Merrill Bright 815 Harbour Way South #5 Richmond CA 94804 ph 510-237-1277 support@carbkits.com
Carb repair kit #CRK-5756W float #C85 115
Maybe not the cheapest parts out there but after speaking with Merrill for some time and going over the numbers and features of the machine and carb, I believe I have the parts that may allow this fork lift to run on pump gas if needed too. I may have to find a small tank to use as a trial gas supply.
Thanks for the support. Will keep you informed.
Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 03 Dec 2020 at 4:43pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 8:08am |
Folks, If I feel ambitious I may pull this carb and install the new float and gaskets and items in the kit:
Need that little gas tank from something? Maybe off of a cub cadet tractor? Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 04 Dec 2020 at 8:09am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 8:27am |
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A portable gas tank for small outboard motors can be very handy for a temporary startup of old machinery with dirty/missing fuel tanks
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 12:14pm |
Les, Great idea! Thanks! Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 2:39pm |
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I have a 1 gallon plastic gas tank from lawn mower that I mounted on a peice of fibergas channel that I can c clamp to the frame and put rubber gasline on for that purpose Chris
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Snowman
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 3:52pm |
I have a very similar lift. I've been told it is an ACC50 with the Buda 153G engine. I've had it for about 9 years. I use it to R&R boat engines and move boats around. A very useful tool. Had good luck with it, had to replace the propane regulator/converter, tune up, and several hoses thru the years. Right now I have both tilt cylinders and the steering cylinder out of it for rebuild. But all in all it has been a good machine.
Good luck with yours. Ed
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 7:52pm |
Thanks for the support guys! We will get this running somehow. Right now it seems to be in pause mode! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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cmsmoke
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Posted: 11 Dec 2020 at 5:38am |
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I’m no expert on propane, but some systems use vacuum to tell the regulator to open. You may want to apply vacuum to the port you plugged and see if you get it to flow.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 11 Dec 2020 at 6:12am |
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If it ends up being a 'nostarter' on both propane or gas, replace the engine.... When I got the sticker shock of 5,000 Canucks to rebuild the 4BD153 ( diesel version), I did some soul searchin...step 1, disconnect battery...easy. step2, remove counterbalance ? hmm.. oh yeah, that's the 4,000# cast iron chunk !..step 3,rethink. step 4...buy 2, 15HP gas engines ,use one to run the hydraulic pump, other to drive the forklift. cost is under 1,000 Canucks so I'd save 4,000 !!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 11 Dec 2020 at 10:12am |
 cmsmoke wrote:
I’m no expert on propane, but some systems use vacuum to tell the regulator to open. You may want to apply vacuum to the port you plugged and see if you get it to flow. |
Thanks! I believe this may be one of my issues. I think it does need vacuum from the manifold to the LPG regulator, which I currently have that hose removed. So that is on the list to recheck. Have been busy with other shop things but getting closer to looking at tghis again too.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Snowman
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Posted: 11 Dec 2020 at 10:18am |
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Another thing you could do is temporarily jump the electricial leads on the regulator and you would not need vacuum to test start the engine.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 11 Dec 2020 at 10:20am |
Folks, This machine may get set up as a gas unit at some point. Friend Jim brought me a gas tank that would work fine to replace the propane cylinder. With some custom mounting brackets built. Nice tank! The large yellow one:
The small plastic one on top, from a lawn tractor) could work as a temp trial gas tank also.
Not moving very fast on this project either!  Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Dec 2020 at 4:25pm |
Allis folks, I had a ex folk lift service tech stop and view the F40. He said I needed the small vacuum diaphragm shut off, to make the system work as intended. He checked that small unit out and said it was bad on the electrical side. So I would need a new one of those. It had not been wired in when I got it so he said it probably was flooding the carb and they got it running by blowing air into the carb to dilute the LPG. Anyway I think I am going to try to get this moved over to pump gas. He wasnt sure if I was going to need a fuel pump or not? I was planning to set the gas tank where the propane tank is and just allow it to gravity feed the carb?? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Snowman
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Posted: 13 Dec 2020 at 5:12pm |
You will probably need a fuel pump. I don't think gravity feed will give you the 4psi needed to run the engine at higher rpms. You should be able to get it started with out a fuel pump. Have fun
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 13 Dec 2020 at 5:44pm |
Snowman, Those were similar thoughts of Carl the service guy. Humm Might have to get a fuel pump too! Thanks for the heads up! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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JohnColo
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Posted: 13 Dec 2020 at 9:50pm |
I'd try it without first. Most tractors don't have a fuel pump, just the tank above the carb. You could also wire in an electric fuel pump if it doesn't work. I doubt if you will be running the engine that fast anyway, being you will probably just be lifting stuff and moving it around the shop.
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