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WaltDevore 
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 Topic: 271 Detroit Diesel rebuild failure
Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 6:30pm |
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New pistons, rings, liners, and complete valve job and engine shows no signs of life. Ether does nothing. Seems minimal air flowing through engine. Cranking engine seems like little compression. I am an amateur but have put tons of time into this. Can't understand why ether doesn't initiate anything. Fuel pump not getting fuel output. Blower turns, seems normal, but I don't know. Can't understand seeming lack of compression. Oh so frustrated. What to do? Thanks. On HD5G 1951.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 6:55pm |
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no compression is normally valve timing.. You have to get the air compressed when the piston is rising.. If valves are open, that dont happen... Also need to inject fuel at the right time... but you tried ether, so its not the pump.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 7:02pm |
not your engine, but something like this...
453 cam timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD52pnYqJcg
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Dec 2020 at 7:16pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DMiller
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 7:04pm |
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Blower may be turning some but sounds like blower drive shaft has sheared
The combined not getting fuel pressure and no air is indicative of that
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 10:04pm |
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I did not remove the crank nor cam shafts. I installed the head assuming the push rods would still be correct. Is it still possible the timing could be off? Thanks
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 10:06pm |
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If I take the fuel pump off, would there be visible something rotating or not to isolate that. If that is the problem, is it repairable? No doubt the engine would need to be removed.
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 10:09pm |
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That sounds freaky correct. It had set for years. Can't imagine how it could have happened but nothing makes sense any more. I imagine with the oil pan off and cranking the engine, the fuel pump drive shaft would be visible.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:17am |
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Remove the fuel pump to make sure the coupling is't broken and same time you will see if you have fuel is comming from the tank
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:46am |
Walt, You may be a novice, but this doesn't sound like a failure! At least not yet. First you have done your best on getting a old dozer running again! That in its self is awesome! I give you credit! I am not familiar with these at all but read your post and had to comment, Sorry not much help. But as mentioned, you need fuel and compression for it to run. If you had the head off, you probably reset the valves to spec? The fuel? Well you need to have some at the injectors or its not going to run. That's about my depth of knowledge on a diesel. My other guess is that the crank to cam timing is still fine since you did not remove those. But your statement about the push rods is puzzling a little? Again I better stop now because between you and me right now you know way more about this engine than I.
We need some pictures too! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 06 Dec 2020 at 6:46am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 7:13am |
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Trust me
Take the blower drive cover off
Pull the drive coupling and shaft
Will find the splines sheared on the shaft or coupler
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 7:14am |
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I overhauled enough Detroit engines and worked with enough of them to understand what failed
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 10:59am |
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Thanks so much for sharing that. Is that the front cover or back? Can it be repaired with the engine in the tractor?
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 12:09pm |
OK what are the valves doing ? what is the clearance of valve stem to rocker arm . Injector timing must be set also with a gauge for proper timing . Pull the injectors from the copper tubes in head - insert a rubber tipped compression test gauge like used in a spark plug hole for gas engine into copper tube and measure compression of each cylinder . Before pulling injectors make sure you have fuel pressure going to them as they have a constant flow from pump to cool injector also and return that fuel back into system (why there are 2 lines to each injector) Are you positive the air damper is not closed on intake side of blower - and that the fuel shut off in the governor is not closed ? You need AIR in, COMPRESSION of air , INJECTION of fuel all at proper time to run . A 2 cycle Detroit is a simple system .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 1:01pm |
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Have you got a manual for that engine? Detroit manuals are very good with detail and step by step procedures. If you're shooting from the hip because of what you know about 4 cycle engines,you're gonna get an education.
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Ray54
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 2:18pm |
Are you sure you had diesel primed. If there is no diesel ether will not make it fire.
Working my HD5 well warmed up and it died. Would not even pop a little using ether. Had a E clip come of a pin in the fuel control linkage under the valve cover. I was very surprised that ether would not pop at all without a bit of fuel. Put the pin back in started right up.
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:10pm |
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The spring that attaches to the shut off levers broke when I first removed it. I didn't replace it, thinking as long as the shut off control was pushed forward temporarily that it would be the same as the spring. Maybe I'm so dumb about that. I will replace it now of course. Could it be that simple? Oh my God!
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:11pm |
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But regardless, I cannot get any output from the fuel pump.
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:16pm |
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Pull the pump, is a Very LIGHT(intentionally) square tube like coupling from drive shaft to pump shaft, it will be round now as the pump has likely locked, that is the fuse to keep from destroying really expensive parts.
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:29pm |
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Thanks, will do!
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 6:32pm |
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I installed the head with the rocker arm components assuming it would be the same as when I took it apart. The hot setting is ten thou, the cold setting maybe 8?
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DMiller
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:01pm |
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Cam is in the block, not gonna screw up timing R&R Head.
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A310
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Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 10:08pm |
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Get a manual and read it from start to finish. This will give you a great start to getting your engine running. In the last chapter there is a trouble shooting section that will guide you through your problem. If you can't find a manual, let me know and I'll show you the link.:) Hope this helps.:)
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1965 AC FDX40-24
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 10:52am |
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I sure appreciate everyone's input. Thanks so much. Renewed vigor to get it going.
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WaltDevore
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Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 8:55pm |
Update
Took off fuel pump, connector okay. Fuel pump drive rotated with starter. Engine sounds out of time, like when a timing belt jumps a sprocket.
[TUBE]P2wDhFPB06U[/TUBE]
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 9:01pm |
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Does not sound like there is any compression. You sure you have the valves adjusted right? Youtube can help.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 08 Dec 2020 at 9:29pm
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wjohn
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Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 10:12pm |
I am no expert on these but I also agree it sounds like no compression. Here's another HD-5 video - I think I've linked right to a point in it when they are cranking it over, and you can sure hear the difference between it and your engine.
Edit: On second listen it could be that the sound is intentionally being reduced by the camera/phone and we can't hear it chugging over very well, maybe. Not sure.
Edited by wjohn - 08 Dec 2020 at 10:14pm
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1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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JC-WI
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Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 10:52pm |
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Take the valve cover off and see if the valves are opening and closing. and make sure they are closing.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 09 Dec 2020 at 7:41am |
Walt, (not a expert here at all) I would have to agree that the posted video and sound. Engine sounds like it is spinning way to easy, like no compression. As mentioned, check the valve timing with crank/ pistons. would be my best guess too. Good news is the engine is turning over! Your close! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 09 Dec 2020 at 7:53am |
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JC is right... pull the valve cover and see what is moving on the top end... and if the valves are going up and down, what clearance do they have when closed.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 09 Dec 2020 at 10:02am |
OK - NO Compression - when you replaced the sleeves did you shim the liners so they are .003 to .008 and even above the block deck . and even between both ?
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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