This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


wiring

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 13>
Author
Message
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 5:04am
Does your Grandpa remember which seal?

steve(ill) has a step you will want to try, but I would do the first compression test without putting anything in the cylinders.  After that test is done then 3 or 4 squirts of ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder before a retest.  The ATF or other oil will add some sealing action and may raise the compression.  If the compression in a cylinder doesn't change with the oil, it can be an indication of a valve stuck open.

When you do the compression test, have all the spark plugs out, throttle wide open, battery fully charged and keep the charger on it.  You want the engine to turn at the same speed and the same number of times as you test each cylinder.  Write the results down for later review.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
WF owner View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 6:33am
As Steve said, try some ATF in the cylinders to loosen things up. A compression gauge would tell you a lot. When you turn it over with a crank, does it seem that each turn takes equal force?

if you have spark, you might want to try a couple different things. You might want to try giving it a shot of starting fluid to see if it tries to start. 

Have you checked to make sure you are getting good gas flow to the carburetor ?

Another alternative is towing it to start it. (Also check to see if it is building oil pressure when it is turning over.)
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 11:20am
I didn't see a spark but I forgot to use the insulated pliers and got shocked


Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 12:05pm
He said the final drive seal
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 3:03pm
I think we have all gotten "bit" at least once, it just part of the territory.  Bet you remember pliers or something to give you more insulation next time.  At some point you should do the check and look at the spark to check its quality, but for now it tells you what is there works.

I think you will find it easier and get more understanding of the systems if you focus on one thing at a time.  Check out the compression next.  Once you get that checked out, then work on the fuel.  

The final seal can come later, it won't affect the engine starting/running.
Back to Top
Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Elvis Land
Points: 6730
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2021 at 8:45pm
If you don't have a compression tester available you can squirt a little gas in each cylinder then install the plugs and try to start it. If it runs for a couple of seconds then you have enough compression for it to run and then I would look at the carburetor next.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 11:38am
I got the carburator cleaned 2 weeks ago. I still have to test the compression but could the gass line be clogged
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 12:40pm
Yes, it is possible for a gas line to be plugged.  A quick check is to take a quart jar or such to catch gas in, and remove the drain plug from the bottom of the carburetor bowl and see how much gas you catch in the jar in two minutes.  You should get at least a pint.  If it doesn't flow that much in a steady stream you will need to drain the tank and start checking for a blockage.  It may be plugged right in the sediment bowl housing above the tank shutoff valve.  You have to remove the sediment bowl housing to check and clean it correctly.  I have fixed a number that were plugged in that location.  Blowing back through the gas line can open it up for as while ( the air can also blow the sediment bowl gasket out), but if the tank is dirty in will plug again. 
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 12:51pm
I cleaned out the gas tank but not the sediment bowl. I also I kno wI dont have much gas right now
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 1:18pm
You need to have at least enough gas in it to cover the outlet in the tank. Just as it sets, do you have gas in the sediment bowl and, if you pull the drain plug out of the carb bowl does it have gas in it?  If it has that much gas in it I think it would at least fire if all other things are right.

When you cleaned the carb, did you have a kit to put in it or did you just take it apart, blow it out, and reassemble with the old parts?  Did you check the float setting?  I won't say any or all of those things will keep it from starting but they may be a factor in the problems.
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 1:24pm
I replaced the carb gasket and used a wire brush to clean the rest of it and rasembled it with the old parts
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 10:04am
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 10:25am
Hi Hunter,

Your Google documents is not an open to see document.  Any one trying to look at it will have request access to see it. 
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 10:36am
Back to Top
WF owner View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 11:58am
Someday, you will look back at that and be happy that you documented everything.
Good luck !!!
Back to Top
Mdguy View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 08 Feb 2020
Location: MD
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mdguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 4:07pm
Just am wondering from reading what you have done to your tractor you said that you replaced the spark plugs. Is your tractor in time still. As particular as you were about rewriting the lights I can’t imagine you pulled off all the plug wires and then tried to guess where they went. But I have seen this happen before and the plugs are firing out of order.
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 7:30am
I looked up the spark plug wire order
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 9:58am
#1 may not match where a book shows it in a picture.  Are you sure the spark at #1 plug matches when #1 cylinder is on compression.  I have pulled #1 plug and ground it near its hole (You may get a shock if you try to hold the plug). Hold a finger tightly over the plug hole and have someone crank the tractor over.    You should see the spark at the plug the same time it pushes your finger off the hole, if the timing is close.   You need the wires in the right firing order, going around the cap in the same direction as the rotor travels.  

Have you checked compression yet?
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:35am
I have not testeded it yet it has been to cold to work on it

Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:41am
the wires where still attached to the distributor cap when I started
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2021 at 7:36pm
I did what you said I cleaned the gas line and put gas in the places where you said to it turned over a little faster but still won't start
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 7:20am
I suggest you do the compression test, and record the results, so you know where compression stands.  There might be a stuck valve, or other issue, from setting.  Then while the plugs are out, line them up, wires connected, near the cylinders they go in and crank it over to see if the spark at the plugs match the puff of compression out of each hole.

Be methodical, completely check one thing and verify it is right or wrong, before moving to something else.
Back to Top
WF owner View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 7:52am
Let's try the basic things first.

When you turn it over with a hand crank, does it turn very easy or is there resistance every half turn. If it turns quite hard, you should have enough compression for it to start.

You say you have spark and fuel to the carburetor. That, to me, means there could mean: 
A. timing is way off.
B. fuel is not going through the carburetor.

Has anyone removed all the spark plug wires or turned the distributer since it last ran?

The first thing I would check is to make sure the distributer turns consistently when turning it over. A few years ago (ok a lot of years ago), I had a roll pin shear off that held the gear on the bottom of the distributer. There was enough friction to make the distributer turn, but it hesitated occasionally. It took me hours to find it.

If it turns good and there is any chance that the timing may have been changed, make sure it is timed right (or close to it). Rather than go through it step-by-step, here is a link that explains it better than I could. 

Once you make sure the timing is right, try it again. If it still doesn't start, remove the hose to the air filter and leave it off until you get it running. Running it a few minutes without an air cleaner won't hurt it.

If it doesn't start, try giving it a shot of starting fluid. If it starts and stops, you will know your problem is in the carburetor.

Good luck !


Edited by WF owner - 24 Feb 2021 at 7:53am
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 10:23am
I have not removed all of the spark plug wire since I got it because I didnt want to forget where they went. I dont think anyone has turned the distributer since it ran last.  I do know that when the pionts open they make spark. my dad thinks the rings might be stuck

Edited by hunter321 - 24 Feb 2021 at 11:14am
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 11:47am
I also don't have a compression tester
Back to Top
WF owner View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2021 at 8:22pm
Have you tried turning it over with a hand crank? Does it turn over the same with the spark plugs in or out ?
I would be very surprised if stuck rings is your problem. Stuck valves is a possibility, but I doubt it would be the rings.
Back to Top
Jim.ME View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2021 at 6:58am
Hunter,
I understand you don't have a compression tester, so try this.  Make sure your tractor is in neutral.  If you remove all 4 sparkplugs, then one at a time hold your finger tight over a spark plug hole and crank the engine over using the pull rod, with the ignition switch off.  Each cylinder should blow your finger away.  Squirting 2 or 3 pumps of oil, from a pump oil can, in each cylinder then trying the test again.  The oil will help seal the rings and compression usually will increase a bit.  If one doesn't your push finger away, that cylinder isn't making compression and that might be because of a stuck valve.  If you have a cylinder like that, you have to remove the valve cover to check to see if the valves, not just the rocker arms, are all moving.

A possibility on getting a compression tester to use is to ask at parts stores.  Some, like O'Reilly and AutoZone have rental/loaner tool programs.  The parts store you use might also if you ask.  Then you could do a real compression test at little or no cost to use the tester.

Is your engine turning over at a good speed when you crank it with the starter?  Haow does it seem to be turning over compared to another tractor?


Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2021 at 8:30am
It turns over slow compared to our oliver tractor
Back to Top
WF owner View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 May 2013
Location: Bombay NY
Points: 4322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2021 at 4:26pm
Where do you live? If you are close to someone on this forum, they may be willing to give you a hand.
Back to Top
hunter321 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2021
Location: 52320
Points: 351
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2021 at 2:59pm
We put atf in the spark plug hole and it turned over a lot faster but when we put the spark plugs back in it still turned over very slow
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 13>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum