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Well,,I KNEW it was gonna happen,,,,,,

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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Well,,I KNEW it was gonna happen,,,,,,
    Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 10:07pm

 Well, since I officially quit "Shade Treeing" a few months ago, I've had to turn away several people, because most of the work involved trouble shooting the computerized systems,,,Chit,,don't people even buy them old cars, trks anymore,,??
 Problem is,,I'm just as guilty as others as all my vehicles are 2000 and newer,,not by much but still,,,LOL,
 In the last couple of weeks my 2006 HHR has needed some attention, and so has the 2000 F150 (Shameless's fav) is now needing some better knowledge than mine,,,,,PLUS,, the friend that helped me re-shingle the house,,his 1999 Ranger also threw a shoe last week.
I had decided that since I was no longer gonna shade tree, I did not need a code reader/scanner, but Oreillys has now decided that they will no longer provide a "print-out" for their code reader service. Their 17 year old new hire will now provide his "expert opinion" on what your trk needs,,,,? CHIT!!  I'M GONNA BUY MY OWN!!
  I'm hoping all them gurus like ole Fixer that does it for a living and others can suggest a good product that is not an arm and a leg expensive, but reliable. I also want one that will talk to my PC to download the info for using a bigger screen. Any one got some suggestions,,,,,Clap
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 10:55pm
ii bought a scanner a few years ago for $100..  It would do everything buy wipe your ars.... It spends about 90% of its time at " the boys house"... So 6 months ago i bought a basic scanner that will give you "the codes" for $30.  ... I get the codes and then look them up on the computer anyway.. Dont need to DOWNLOAD the info..


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2022 at 10:59pm
most of the cheaper ones do not read Transmission or Anti-Lock brake codes.... Just the motor and emissions...
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 5:39am
Less expensive scanners will read codes but you need something that can give you some data as well to try to interpret the codes better. Say a plugged converter can give you a map sensor code (engine vacuum code).

The ones I use at work are shop bought. I'm not shelling out that kind of money.
Snapon Zues with a cabinet and monitor was 17K. I think the Autel was 6 or7K.
You should be able to find something out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 5:50am
I had one from H-F for years then it didn't survive a 'drive over' test...oopsy. It's replacement stays IN my '97 F150 now. Use it to reset the 'engine' light that comes on due to truck needing right exhaust manifold...
Basic unit, just write down the number, lookup on the internet.I have a GREAT mechanic a long walk away,so I don't turn wrenches on the truck.
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 5:58am
Cheap code Readers do only that, tell you a given code and then can clear them is all.  To get into real time diagnostics and actually repair a cause for fault the next step is as noted MEGA Money for Computerized scanners and laptop units that can 'Read' engine/drive train sensors while is running.

Been there did that in the 90s, machines have expanded exponentially since then.

A cheap less than value code reader can tell you what sensor is NOT reading properly but not why, is NOT Always a bad sensor.  Spend your money take your chances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 6:55am

 The last time Oreillys actually printed out a "scan" on the HHR, I got a 3 page report that had a graph that was titled,,, "% Probability of Cause",, (or something like that) and listed cause of problem from the HIGHEST Percent Probability to the Lowest percent. (about 6 entries) and the 17 year old "Ace Reader" only tells you the "Highest Cause",,,,but like what Fixer says,,, sometimes it is something else that is triggering that particular sensor, and if you don't have that printout with ALL the probabilities, you have no idea what to check ALONG with the highest probability. Case in point, yesterday, Jamie took the F150 to Oreillys cause it had a BAD misfire at idle and engine would die after bout 45 seconds,,but ran good at hiway speeds!!  The 17 year old told him it was BOTH O2 sensors,,WTF,,? Well, Jamie bought BOTH O2 sensors ($80 Bucks wworth!),, spent 3 hours changing em and,,,,and,,,the friggin trk still has the BAD misfire!!
 Hey Steve, is there a particular website you use to get the codes info??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 8:02am
What would be the logical thing you would think about on a miss fire? Go with the obvious checks first. Some especially Ford won't always tell you what cylinder is miss firing. Then you have to get into a little more depth, other sub sections of available data. That is why I say you need to be able to have something that reads the data stream. If you clear codes it has to go through another drive cycle which can take some time sometimes to save any drivability issues.

As far as Jamie's you need the codes, year, engine and all that to know more about it.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 8:05am
Anything computerized flies over my head like a jet airplane.
Only wrenching I care to do is on my old Allis farm equipment.
Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 8:50am
I work with some younger guys that won't work on anything older than they are. 30 or so give or take and that's a stretch. They get in an older one and see a distributor and a carb and say 'how in the fk does this even work'.

I just got a text from the powers at be asking how I am doing. 
Well.....try wiping your ass with the wrong hand and tell me how that goes for ya.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 8:59am
Joe, i normally GOOGLE and look at several sites to get a "BETTER IDEA" of all possible problems.. Some sites are BETTER for FORD and some for CHEVY... It helps to put that in your SEARCH..

Lets say you have a 308 code on a F150...... I GOOGLE   "2008 F150 Code P0308"


this is what they give you.......

|What are the Possible Causes of the P0308 FORD Code?

  • Faulty spark plug 8
  • Clogged or faulty fuel injector 8
  • Faulty ignition coil 8
  • Fuel injector 8 harness is open or shorted
  • Fuel injector 8 circuit poor electrical connection
  • Ignition coil 8 harness is open or shorted
  • Ignition coil 8 circuit poor electrical connection
  • Insufficient cylinder 8 compression
  • Incorrect fuel pressure
  • Intake air leak

what i also look for is MULTIPLE CODES... If i get ONLY 308, then it is a GOOD CHANCE it is the coil or the plug on the coil..... If i ALSO get a "fuel pressure" code in addition to the 308, then i might look further at the INJECTOR and its plug  ....... if i got a 171 or 173 code for AIR LEAK in ADDITION to the 308... then i might also consider a leaky manifold or vacuum hose... etc...


Edited by steve(ill) - 13 Jun 2022 at 9:02am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 9:07am
Your GOOGLE search might also lead you to a FORD FORUM kink of like this Allis FORUM... You will see several guys discussion the P0308 code and the most LIKELY CAUSE... they might know something SPECIFIC about THAT MODEL that is more likely to be the cause.... and there are some FACTORY MECHANICS that post on those sites..


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 11:31am
Way back my brother use to do work on the side for many neighbors as he worked full time for a dealership . Then he took a job as mechanic for a large service company running 10 limos, 200 service cars and trucks and 15 Armored cars . 
 Still did a few neighbors yet on the side - 
Had relative of a neighbor stop in and demand he check out his vehicle and set a time to service it . Kind of ticked off brother so he just went over to his work bench - acted like he was checking calendar - told the guy he had a opening 5 months down the line to look at it .   ( GUY LEFT ALL IN A HUFF - saying it wasn't acceptable )  
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 11:34am
sigh... I HATE the OBD-II BS....
take the FOUR possible problems above ( inj or coil..open.shorted.faulty..) ANY real programmer can code to tell WHICH of those 'problems' IS the actual problem. It CAN be done, BTDT, decades ago to look for a 'bad' temperature sensor in a greenhouse( 1 of 64 in a string...)
It ain't 'rocket science', just proper programming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 1:17pm
thats why i say look for MULTIPLE CODES..... If you get a 308 ONLY, its probably the coil or its elect plug... If you get 308 and a "low fuel pressure" , then its probably the injector or its elect plug .... if you get a 308 and a " air leakage", them you might look at other..

I have used a BASIC code reader for 30 years and NEVER had to take a car or truck to a "mechanic" do figure out a problem... Its just a matter of looking at ALL the codes and putting 2 + 2 together before you start replacing parts.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 1:27pm
Hard engine faults, IE Vacuum Leaks, Incorrect Crankcase ventilation, Exhaust Leaks, poor fuel delivery due to low transfer pump pressure will code thru Sensors as Sensor faults and are NOT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 1:33pm
thats why you look for MULTIPLE CODES and each code gives MULTIPE POSSIBLE PROBLEMS..... there normally is NOT a code that says "YOUR 02 SENSOR IS BAD, REPLACE IT"..... there can be SEVERAL possible problems and ONE could be the sensor.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

thats why i say look for MULTIPLE CODES..... If you get a 308 ONLY, its probably the coil or its elect plug... If you get 308 and a "low fuel pressure" , then its probably the injector or its elect plug .... if you get a 308 and a " air leakage", them you might look at other..

I have used a BASIC code reader for 30 years and NEVER had to take a car or truck to a "mechanic" do figure out a problem... Its just a matter of looking at ALL the codes and putting 2 + 2 together before you start replacing parts.


 AND,,this is EXACTLY why I wanta "reader' "scanner" what ever they called that will give me multiple "Possible causes" based on what the ECM "sees" and I am thru with going to Oreillys for a "Check Engine Light" analysis!! Ya'll ain't gonna believe this, but took the F150 to Oreillys this morn and a diff guy hooked up and tells me,,,,," It's your O2 sensors" just as pretty as you please!!!   WTF,,,???  I told him that is BS as we replaced em BOTH yesterday based on what you people told my Son Sat and THAT cost us $80 friggin dollars!!!! Without a care in the world he says, Maybe it is this one,,,? I told him I wanted our money back and he says,,"We have 30 day warrantee so bring em back and we'll refund your money. I FRIGGIN LEFT, I was so upset,,,,,
 On the way home, I started to talk to myself and what or where this is all coming from and how we used to look for leaks with a can of carb cleaner or startin fluid,,,,,?
 I had to raise the idle quite a bit to keep engine runningand went to following a vaccum hose from start point to end and after the 3rd hose,,,,VIOLA,,,the engine revs up quite a bit and stops missing,,!! after a bit it goes back to missing, so more spray, again a rise in idle but NOT on a hose,,,its leaking on this Doo-hicky bolted to rear of intake manifold and after several sprays, it is not the gasket but the body of this part.!!
 I'ma see if I can post a pic as I have no idea what this is called,,,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 2:17pm
It's an "idle air control".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 2:20pm
Make sure it's not the PCV hose rotted and leaking Joe.
Could be in the same area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 3:11pm

 10-4 Fixer, The hoses all look good and not hardened up. The 3rd hose I followed out was the hose at the air intake hose and followed it back to this IAC behind the intake manifold, The 1" hose did NOT have a clamp and was kinda loose on the fitting but engine still reved up after spraying after installing a clamp on the hose end. SO, I sprayed the gasket area and only got a slight rise in RPMs, so I sprayed the mid section of the valve and got a BIG rise in RPMs! There is a small "cap" on top of the IAC and idle would also rise when spraying that part, but really think it is the "seam" where it is leaking. Parts stores did not have one so I'ma order one from Walmart.com, be here on Thurs,,,,, Still looking into gettin a reader/ scanner, tho,,,,Got any suggestions,,??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 3:35pm
How much you want to spend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 4:22pm
Your boy at the Auto Store is an idiot... there is NO CODE that says " REPLACE BOTH o2 Sensors".......... that was my point.. You need the CODE and then look at the POSSIBILITIES.... "O2 problems"  means  

--excess fuel
--lack of fuel
--not enough air
--too much air
--bad wire connection on the 02 sensor
-- or BAD O2 sensor...

if the CODE says "02 problem" and it happens on BOTH SIDES, the possibility of BOTH 02 SENSORS being bad at the same time is ZERO..... Store Boy should have known that !

Congrats on finding the AIR LEAK... Sometimes the "old method" of looking for leaks is the best FIX... all the CODE does is tell you that AIR LEAK is a "possibility".


Edited by steve(ill) - 13 Jun 2022 at 4:23pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 4:24pm
Joe... did you try DUCT TAPE to try to cover the crack ?? ........ Wink  Wink
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 4:41pm
Joe, the $99. scanner that Fixer linked to sounds like a good one.... you can also get about 90% of the same stuff for $35..

Again.. NO SCANNER is going to tell you "replace this part".... you take the CODE and look up the 5 POSSIBILITIES that cause that code... then work thru them.... Sometimes you will get 2-3 DIFFERENT CODES and you can determine if they are related to ONE PROBLEM... I do that part on the COMPUTER... Some Scanners have an APP to them, etc..  NONE of them are FOOL PROOF.


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2022 at 9:14pm

 Well, a bit of an update on ole Shameless's fav trk,,,,,,I got to looking at the IAC and there is a small shaft that is moved back and forth that opens and closes a seat between the two ports on the IAC body,,,well,,the frigging shaft is frozen with both ports closed to each other,,,,Also, the little electric"solenoid"? was not working for CHIT... with 12 volts across the two pins,,SO,, this may of been the culprit that started the whole Chit-A Risky,,,,
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2022 at 11:52am
Shade tree fixen is harder than it us to be, but a long way from dead.Joe will win this one. Once Joe had all the "extra junk" out of his way that O'l Ford started give up its secrets. Hoping the O'l Evil Smile doesn't have more surprises waiting for you.


I have a good friend here that is still winning as well, but his every day truck is a 65 Ford F100 or a 58 F600. Just has the thinking and uses logic to keep going until you get to the trouble. I can spend hours trying get things lined up and pushed together. Give as I need more hands to move pieces at the same time. So I call O'l Dave, Wink he shows up and it all just slides right together .  Thumbs UpClap 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2022 at 12:51am
i'm afraid that if'n ole Joe shows up at my place with a ferd...i'm guess'in there might be a fire! I don't think there's a code for that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fixer1958 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2022 at 6:37am
Sure there is
P0217
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