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welding 300 gal fuel tank

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Sandknob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandknob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: welding 300 gal fuel tank
    Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 7:52am
I have a pinhole in our 300 gal gasoline fuel tank.  Can I run a quick bead (with MIG of course) and be okay or do I need to fill with water and then weld?  The tank is clean on the outside.  I have heard about running exhaust thru them as well.  Any ideas.
Thanks
Adam
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mlpankey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:08am
fill it with a constant purge of argon or carbon dioxide. they will swell large with just water . Be carefull.
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roughstock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roughstock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:18am
I have had success with JB weld on truck gas tanks. No risk of explosion. Just prep the areas with sand paper first and it last.

Brian 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEJim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:29am
If you have a pinhole in it now you will have more shortly.  It is rusting out from the inside.  I don't think it's worth taking the chance of blowing yourself up over it.  Only way I would try to fix it is with JB Weld....  I have seen what happens when one explodes.  It's not pretty...........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ALinIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:02am
Welding is NOT a good idea.  You do and your new ID here may be EL Kaboom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:10am
There's enough of them out there for sale, I wouldn't mess with trying to fix one. J.B.Weld isn't a permanent repair. I've repaired gas tanks with it and it lasts about 1 1/2 years. 
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roddo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:19am
If its a saddle tank and rotted where the straps surround it I've seen tanks repaired with bands welded around the tank where the straps sit.  Its usually done on aluminum tanks as they are substantially more expensive to replace, but it could work for you on a steel one.  Just make sure the bands go well outside the area that is corroded to get into some good metal to weld to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:26am
If it's 'just a pinhole', I'd drill it out a bit,clean the area REAL good, mix up some JB Weld,spread it over the area, then screw in a bigheaded selftapping screw into the hole,and laying some more JB Weld over it. Wait couple of days for it to get good and hard.
In the 'old dayze', I would've just cleaned the area  and got out my 250Watt soldering iron and done the deed. Guess I'm getting wiser the older I get.....?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GBACBFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:30am
If you weld it, listen very carefully for the sound that indicates an impending problem...
 
KABOOM!
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are genuine." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandknob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:35am
We used to fill many of them with water and cut them in half with a cutting torch to make burn barrels.  Never had a problem with the water doing that, thats why I asked.
Thanks for the replys
Adam
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Sandknob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandknob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:37am
Its actually clean on the inside, it is just a bad seam weld.
Adam
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote firebrick43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:40am
pankey has it right, the only way to do it is with an inert gas purge.  My father and I used to repair gasoline tankers quite often, buy a tank of liquid nitrogen and start pumping it in to purge the oxygen out.  The nitrogen was cheaper but argon or co2 will work as well, just make sure you purge it well and keep it purged as you weld. 

I would take a chipping hammer and pick the area that you intend to weld with the sharp end.  This will tell you where the extent of the rust damage is.  You may need to cut a large section out and weld a new one in. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 10:11am
According to one shade tree VW repair manual I used to have, you just rub the area where the pin hole is with a bar of handsoap and that will hold for years.

Its almost sure that one pinhole is in a cluster of thousands almost all the way through over the whole bottom of the tank. That pretty much makes it scrap iron and the iron man isn't happy with the prospects of it igniting and expanding rapidlly as he cuts it up.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 4:42pm
I would have thought a former buisness agent of the pipefitters would have known how to weld up a fuel tank without the kaboom. . We welded a six inch diesel line up this summer . we drained it purged it with argon and welded it . after welding it we blew our purged down .the volume found about ten gallons of fuel that we didnt have drained due to a low spot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elalr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 6:57pm
 filling it with exhaust will work or the water will work but it is still risky. you have to decide whether the risk is worth it. i can tell you it still can go wrong. i work with a man whos father was killed and his shop was destroyed in the 90's. his father was experienced in repairing these. something just went wrong that day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 7:30pm
yes the promblem with water is fuel and vapors is lighter goes to the top and finds air. the promblem with automobile exhaust is it can have unburned fuel in it that when combined with air oxygen can relite.  A continuos flow of inert gas at 2 psi with a oxygen monitor alarming no oxygen at purge tape is the only way to weld a fuel tank safely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:25pm
I used to weld diesel tanks same way, I will gladly waste argon to keep my hair and not see the inside of the tank from the outside without looking in a hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 11:28pm
My grandpa and his neighbor bought an old gas truck one time to use for hauling water. After hauling water in it for 2 years, they decided one day that they needed to do some modifications to it (i.e., weld on it). They backed it into my grandpa's garage to do the work. His neighbor crawled up on top of it to do the welding, and grandpa walked out of the garage and around the corner (Thank God he went around the corner). The neighbor barely struck an arc, and the whole end of the tank blew out. Fortunately no one was hurt, but I know it'll be a cold day in he!! when I strike an arc of any kind on a tank that has ever had gas in it.  Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 6:49am
on steel tank the gas soak into the steel a little when you put heat on it it sweets out the gas and bvad things happen unless you can keep a good purge going. Don't think it is worth the chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:07am
I am speaking for myself but i dont think firebrick or dmiller along with me would post a method on enternet that would cost someone their life. ever weld up a live natural gas line?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigallis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:28am
Adam, DON'T try to weld it. Why take the chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jjwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:50am
Believe it or not, we have peened them shut. Propane tanks, Just start working the metal slowly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:51am
Originally posted by mlpankey mlpankey wrote:

yes the promblem with water is fuel and vapors is lighter goes to the top and finds air. the promblem with automobile exhaust is it can have unburned fuel in it that when combined with air oxygen can relite.  A continuos flow of inert gas at 2 psi with a oxygen monitor alarming no oxygen at purge tape is the only way to weld a fuel tank safely.


Plankey is 100% correct.  I learned this from old timers when I was growing up and was also taught this in high school ag classes, in college and on the job.

Another method for doing this repair:
If the hole is on the bottom of the tank, here is one way to weld a leaky tank is a combination of techniques.
1. Drain the tank of all fuel.
2. Use an epoxy to seal the leak.
3. Fabricate a metal patch which is six inches larger than the damaged area.
4. Fill tank completely with water.
5. Fit the patch into position and weld.
6. Drain the tank.
7. Once tank is dry, refill with fuel.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:53am
There is a way to weld anything in any condition or with any content, it just comes down to cost or preperation to value of finished work.
 Guy I worked with tried welding on 265 oil tank after all the methods he heard about were used to purge it , took one side of garage wall out and him and son were 4 days in hospital and he was month off work.
 Then neighbor was cutting up railroad tank cars, cut over 100 of them with torch, no problems at all as they used steam cleaing, nitrogen purge, and other safety measures to insure no explosive fumes or residue was left in cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 8:13am
mlpankey, I certainly was not accusing you or the others of posting a method that could cost someone their life, but I was just stressing the importance of using a proper method, and speaking for myself when I say that I would not weld on a gas tank. I do know that knowledeable people weld em up all of the time, Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WC7610 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 8:41am
300 gallon fuel tanks sell for next to nothing on farm sales.  Get another and scrap this one.  As someone above posted, if you have one leak now, you'll keep getting more...
Thanks



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 10:20am
nitrogen is lighter than air argon is heavier than air guys.  use the right procedure and its safe deviate from procedure and its not good.

Edited by mlpankey - 07 Nov 2010 at 10:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 10:31am
A good article on Nitrogen, and I learned something also ..LOL .. it is lighter than air (as it is 78% of air already) 
yet it is used as a purge gas as it will absorb any other fumes into itself and dispell them into surroundings in less than explosive amounts. 

Edited by Coke-in-MN - 07 Nov 2010 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 11:03am

nitrogen will work its promblem being lighter than air so it doesnt want to stay in the tank your purging as well as argon does argon being heavier and wanting to stay down low . So if in a garage its safe to say when the nitrogen rises to the cieling and causes the oxygen level to fall below ignition sources in the garage  at tank level you have passed out as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(WD45-SATX-TN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 2:35pm
I would opt for buying a new tank. While purging with CO2 or Argon is best, O2 monitoring would be an absolute must. Both for you as well as the inside of the vessel. N2 will rise. Argon and CO2 are indeed heavier and will pool. One thing to be aware of is it pooling in your shop as well. You need to be well ventillated. The CO2 and Argon will slowly fill you shop area like a bath tub. You kneel down into that invisible volume of gas to work. One breath and you are out like a light, done, end of story. Keep in mind that the environment we breath is only about 20 percent O2. Deviate either way and it can be your end. All of these gases are inert, do not smell, and are invisible. I work in the compressed gas business, 15 years now. Usually deaths from asphyxiation happen in 2s or 3s. Rescuers get to the victim down not knowing the environment, they to become overcome and die. Would need about 5-6 peoples figera to count the times I have heard about McDonalds or other fast food chains having O2 displacement deaths due to mis handling of the CO2 for the beverage carbonation. Same in the refining industry, huge pipelines are inerted with N2 and Ar. Someone avoids a confined space entry or even somthing as simple as looking in a man way is their end. Cant see the gas or smell it. They stick their head in to see whats inside or going on, breath normally and are gone.
 
Not worth the time, money, or risk. We go over these types of incidents just about every safety meeting.
 
My few cents.....
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