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Don(MO) 
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Location: Bates City MO.
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 Topic: WD Not Starting - Looking for help
Posted: 07 May 2019 at 9:48am |
I'm teaching class's to help first time tractor owners to the more advanced with questions. http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/class-on-why-wont-my-tractor-run_topic159525.html
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Sugarmaker
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 06 May 2019 at 8:35pm |
b, Guys that know the electrical on these old mags make it look easy to trouble shoot problems. Or even electrical in general. When we had the mag on the WD when it worked it was great. When it didn't Dad had to get the local expert to stop and get it working. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 08 May 2019 at 6:49pm
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet, 66 F100.
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mdm1
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Posted: 06 May 2019 at 7:30pm |
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Is there any chance the stud that the kill switch is connected to is grounded against the mag housing or the wire to the stud has come off inside? I believe it is supposed to be insulated from the case. Hope I got that right.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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HoughMade
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Location: Valparaiso, IN
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Posted: 06 May 2019 at 5:07pm |
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So....maybe you have a bad magneto then? Have you checked the points? Have you checked the resistance of the coil?
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1951 B
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bhaynes
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Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Posted: 06 May 2019 at 4:54pm |
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I don’t know what your talking about. LOL - however, the magneto itself isn’t generating power. I have tested the magneto every which way. Watched videos, posted posts on here, tried others suggestions. Etc.
No spark is coming through at all. What I have done though, it set the #1 piston to TDC. Then put the magneto cap to set at 1. Put it all back, plugged the wires up properly. Nothing.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 06 May 2019 at 4:47pm |
 savedallis1953 wrote:
I once owned a 1938WC, beautiful machine. The mag would make spark when held in my hand and turned over with a thumb over the plug wire holes, oh yeah. Reinstalled it and timed it with the "F" on the flywheel and cranked a few hundred times in all "correct" positions and with #1 in compression stroke.So for the meantime I Fab'd a battery box and installed a distributor starts every time, even after sitting for 9 years. I guess I am a procrastinator. |
You don't time it to the F unless it's running and you have a light on it. F is fire and is not used for static timing. TDC is for static timing the mag. I doubt it would ever pop, if you time it o the F mark.
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bhaynes
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Joined: 23 Feb 2019
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:57pm |
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Pretty much! :-) I’ll be reaching out to the local Co-Op to see if they can help / work on it or if they know anybody.
It sucks this is the only thing stopping me from getting it kicked over after 2 years. Haha
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festus51
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:34pm |
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Sounds like you need some personal attention to do this for you.
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We the unwilling Led by the unqualified Doing the impossible for the Ungrateful
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bhaynes
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 8:42pm |
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I have tried it with the switch on and off and the actual kill switch wire completely off too. Tried everything. I believe it is bad or I am missing something beyond my expertise in it. I have reached out to some to see about help.
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HoughMade
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 4:26pm |
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Just to be certain- the kill switch should be open, not closed, to start. On aftermarket switches, this will be the “off” position.
Edited by HoughMade - 05 May 2019 at 4:27pm
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1951 B
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Alberta Phil
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 4:21pm |
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If your mag has the gear to the rotor in the large cap, are you sure the timing mark is lined up with the marked tooth on the steel gear in the main part of the mag. If you didn't get those two gears timed correctly, your mag will not work even if the coil is good. It's easy to get it out of time when meshing these gears if you're not familiar with FM magnetos.
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Dave(inMA)
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 11:50am |
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No, the rotor isn't supposed to touch the brass contacts. The mag builds enough charge to easily jump the gap between the rotor tip and the contacts.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 11:05am |
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have you cleaned the points? Running a piece of coarse cardboard like a matchbook cover or thin card stock will clean and polish them. They will sometimes get oxidized from just sitting.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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bhaynes
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 11:04am |
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I watched a few videos on the mag. When I turn the rotor inside the cap, it doesn’t seem to be hitting copper points. Are they supposed too?
I honestly think at this point, it’s the mag not creating a spark.
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bhaynes
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:54am |
Thanks everybody. I hate to convert it to a 12v as it is an heirloom and call me sentimental, but trying my best to keep it as original as possible. I will eventually end up going that route I am sure, but last resort. :)
Yes - It DID run about 1.5/2 years ago. Fired right up and I drove it around. My grandfather tried to fire it up about 6 or 8 months ago and it wouldn't kick over. This is when I got it shortly after and started restoring it.
I took the mag apart, but NOT the guts. Basically, just took the cap off and the 2 halves to clean the inside and inspect the guts. Everything still looks brand new from the factory. "appears" excellent shape.
I will try/attempt a spark with the cap off. If I can determine that the Mag is working, then I know it's something else.
Anybody know or have a good resource in the South East part of Tennessee? :)
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mdm1
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:38am |
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Have to ask. Did it run before you started working on it? Maybe see if someone in your area could test the mag for you. Try a spark plug tester. Try another plug wire, maybe one you took off if it ran before. The ammeter has nothing to do with the mag. I had that problem with one of my B's but can't remember what it was. Sorry. But my mag was good.
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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Don(MO)
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:05am |
MACK wrote:
With cap off, like in your picture, hook a wire to terminal on red coil. Hold other end of wire 1/4 inch from block. Rotate engine we nd there should be spark jump to block. If there is a spark, put cap back on in time. Put a plug wire in cap and try same thing with plug wire. Engine may have to turn over two times to get spark.
I would guess cap is not on in time. Or mag out of time. MACK |
What Mack said X2.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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ac fleet
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 9:04am |
Mags are a POS, and super picky about everything. ( I have changed all but 2 of mine to dist.)
You should see spark across the points with the cap off IF your coil and points are good, no need for using just one cylinder for this test, takes 2 people to work it but will tell you real quick IF the mag is making any spark at all. If you have spark at this level then you have to get it to the plugs at the right time.--That's where the real problem starts since all the gears have to be in the right marks.---should be a dot on the gears to line up and be close enough to run, then turn mag body to fine tune while running. If this don't work I would say the mag is dead and will need to be either rebuilt or get a new one. They have to be re-built using special test bench, so it's not something every Joe can do. -- If you want to keep original, send mag in!--Me I would get the dist conversion, much cheaper and more reliable, easy to work on, simple made, etc. This is what I run into, so the choice is yours.
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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
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savedallis1953
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 8:25am |
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I once owned a 1938WC, beautiful machine. The mag would make spark when held in my hand and turned over with a thumb over the plug wire holes, oh yeah. Reinstalled it and timed it with the "F" on the flywheel and cranked a few hundred times in all "correct" positions and with #1 in compression stroke.So for the meantime I Fab'd a battery box and installed a distributor starts every time, even after sitting for 9 years. I guess I am a procrastinator.
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1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft.
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MACK
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 8:04am |
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With cap off, like in your picture, hook a wire to terminal on red coil. Hold other end of wire 1/4 inch from block. Rotate engine we nd there should be spark jump to block. If there is a spark, put cap back on in time. Put a plug wire in cap and try same thing with plug wire. Engine may have to turn over two times to get spark.
I would guess cap is not on in time. Or mag out of time. MACK
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JaredC(WI)
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 7:21am |
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I'm with Chaskaduo, bypass the kill switch and see what happens.
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DougS
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Posted: 05 May 2019 at 4:12am |
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I doubt your plug wires are bad. You've stated that they were changed recently. I hope you've used solid core wires, not that suppressive wires wouldn't at least show a spark. I suspect that either something got reassembled incorrectly or one of the coil leads inside the mag got damaged. Are the points in the mag gapped correctly?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:40pm |
Take that wire off the side of the mag and check with a meter to ground. When it is grounded, you will have NO SPARK, so that wire has to be "open" in order to get spark. You said "took the magneto apart and made sure its rotated to the correct piston
#1 in the sequence (1243) and rotated correctly. The Mag is open (ready
to create a spark) and #1 piston is at TDC." Number 1 has to be at TDC of the COMPRESSION STROKE or it won't be in time. Take #1 plug out, put your thumb in the hole and crank it over till you feel compression. Then bring it to TDC and set timing for #1 to fire. The easiest way to check for spark is the way a neighbor used to do it. grab ahold of one plug wire with one hand, and grab the frame of the tractor with the other. When it rolls over for that cylinder, you should FEEL it. You might not want to do this if you have a pace maker or defibrillator  and you may never do it that way again. Better yet, have somebody else hold the wire, while you crank it.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 04 May 2019 at 5:43pm
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bhaynes
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:40pm |
Well, I took the wire off. Left the wire on the spark plug (took the plug out) and cranked to see if I could see a spark. DID NOT see any spark. Looked on the other plugs as well.
So unless I am thinking wrong or tested that incorrectly, I either have a bad magneto OR bad spark wires?
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mdm1
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:29pm |
Everyone on here knows alot more than I but try disconnecting the white wire from the magneto then see if you have spark. Here is a good page to look at also. http://rodnh.byethost12.com/acb/magtiming/magtiming.htm
Edited by mdm1 - 04 May 2019 at 5:29pm
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Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:22pm |
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Mark sure your kill/ignition switch is working properly and not grounding out the Magneto in the run position.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:16pm |
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and, the ammeter will not show a charge until engine is running and generator charging. If you have some sort of electrical load, light, etc you may see the ammeter indicate a neg current flow with motor not running
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:16pm |
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You don't need power for a mag ignition. The wire you see is to kill or ground the mag to stop the spark and stop the engine after it starts.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:14pm |
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The magneto generates it's own energy, it is basically a generator with a stepup coil and points inside
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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bhaynes
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Posted: 04 May 2019 at 5:09pm |
What I don't get is how is the magneto getting power? The only wire on the new harness is just from that kill switch on the side to the ignition switch. But it's a basic open/close circuit, no current. So how does it no to open or close? LOL (see picture). Also - on the Ammeter on the console (new with new wiring harness), the needle doesn't budge at all. Am I missing something and this could be why its not starting? You can see the white / black tracers is the only wire going.
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