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GBACBFan 
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 Topic: wc pullin engine
Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:55pm |
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I bought some parts from that gentleman, but don't remember his name. His place is North of Mpls/St Paul. The WC was in his shop, and looked like it could pull the building down. I believe he's at the swap meet at Le Seuer, MN every year.
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Pa.Pete
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:41pm |
 wi50 wrote:
I was messing around looking at youtube, there's a WC video there "allis pulling at luck wisconsin" kind of a neat tractor. If I knew how to post links I'd put it here |
Is this it. -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9wzSEEVGws
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 9:02pm |
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it takes a tub of belzona supermetal 111 . the 1.8 works but i have had to plug the thin spots before . the best way is to cut a head into sections open it up contuor everything with bondo smooth it flow it get it where you want it. then mirror image the work to the head you want to run with the belzona smooth to get the numbers . bondos easier to work for the trial and errors. once we are done we add water and silicon glass under 14 psi of pressure for a number of days untill we have no seapage . the bad frequencys have more affect on long rods . Bad flowing heads can be helped with short rods. long rod ratios always need excellent flowing heads unfortunately tractor heads just dont do it without boost.
Edited by mlpankey - 03 Dec 2010 at 9:11pm
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wi50
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:54pm |
hey allis fields,
I used to pull with Rod, still talk to him now and then. I went to Hutchinson a few times. Life has taken over and business is good, not much time anymore to get out.
You ever see the little WC "gone ballistic"?
Edited by wi50 - 03 Dec 2010 at 8:56pm
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wi50
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:50pm |
What size would one want the runner bored to for a 1.94 valve in an engine like above? I've sonic tested a few different heads but it seams that a 1.65" runner is getting twards the end of things for holding water and being durable.
I don't have any computer programs, just a few books, calculator and some junk shop equipment. My head on the high speed engine is a total different mess with 2.1 runners, with a v to eliminate reverberation. We made the billet roller rockers, and I had to make the rocker shaft with supports on the ends, L shaped posts that were held down by the end head bolts. Without them the end rocker arms would bend the shaft up once in a while if it wound to hard.
I set up the head for the little 240 inch, low speed engine I'm working on, I bored the runners to 1.55 and quit, still debateing if I should go more, or leave it where it is. I have not ordered valves yet, still kicking around what size to run.
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Allis Fields
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 8:09pm |
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His name is Rod ? . I met him at the Rice Lake Wi. pull and he had that tractor at the Hutchinson pull.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 6:05pm |
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your welcome , i like seeing orange tractors out front.
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dharpo
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 4:27pm |
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THANK YOU so very much
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 4:19pm |
dharpo wrote:
hey guys let me back up and rephrase the original question. i"m building another engine 4.5x6 its a gleaner motor. before I"m committed to the valve size I was wonderin if there was an optimum size to use? |
I myself like the 1.94 and opening the head and intake up so its the choke point with the smallest valve stem you can buy . computer likes a 1.8 intake for 3000 and under rpms. cant and want argue that . I happen to like software it makes my life easier. If my cam was a single pattern cam with a lot of lift on the exhaust I wouldn't exceed a 1.6 exhaust valve if my exhaust manifolds not my choke point. If i was running a tubed header that scavenged well with a single pattern high lift cam 1.5 exhaust valve would stay with allot smaller valve stem .
Your calculated Intake Valve Diameter is 1.79 inches .
Your Valve to Bore ratio is 0.40 . |
| < value=Calculate =submit name=submit> |
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VALVE / BORE Ratio
The valve to bore ratio should be:
52-52.5% of the bore for Wedge heads.
53-53.5% for Canted valve, rotated canted valve (Mopar P/S hemi) and true Hemi.
If you decrease intake exhaust ratio down to 70-71% you can move both intake and
exhaust valves over to the exhaust side and increase intake valve size by .5-1%.
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Edited by mlpankey - 03 Dec 2010 at 4:26pm
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dharpo
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 4:04pm |
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hey guys let me back up and rephrase the original question. i"m building another engine 4.5x6 its a gleaner motor. before I"m committed to the valve size I was wonderin if there was an optimum size to use?
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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wi50
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 3:57pm |
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I was messing around looking at youtube, there's a WC video there "allis pulling at luck wisconsin" kind of a neat tractor. If I knew how to post links I'd put it here
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 11:40am |
dharpo wrote:
ever heard of millin the block? don't be so picky. I was just wantin a few suggestions if i was onto a good combination or not. thanks for the info so far it has really helped. |
I am not being picky . I may have been reading something into it . Such as testing me as to if I knew something about the engine or just play with computer simulations. Reason I got to thinking that way is information you provided was sparce and some what misleading. So I was thinking the asking for thoughts on your build and ways of improving it if any was half hearted at best. Shame on me for thinking that way . Yes I deck blocks usually .010 to .030 not ever .100 to .200
Edited by mlpankey - 03 Dec 2010 at 11:46am
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dharpo
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 10:33am |
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ever heard of millin the block? don't be so picky. I was just wantin a few suggestions if i was onto a good combination or not. thanks for the info so far it has really helped.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 03 Dec 2010 at 7:08am |
dharpo wrote:
sorry about all the confusion fellas fat fingers got me !!! its an 8" rod. weisco flat top bbc pistons |
Either fat fingered the 1 inch compression height or the .500 bellow deck as well .
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dharpo
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 11:30pm |
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sorry about all the confusion fellas fat fingers got me !!! its an 8" rod. weisco flat top bbc pistons
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 7:25pm |
wi50 wrote:
I was refering to the original poster with the 9" rod, 4.5 bore and 6" crank, 1" piston and .5 deck, .060 gasket.
Those numbers didn't add up but if it's a typo and an 8 inch rod, we get around 11 to 1. I've alwayse used 12.65-12.66 for a deck height on the blocks, but then the .5" below deck doesn't figure out in the original post either.
I shot for an even 9 to 1 in my little engine, 8.52 rod, valves make a little positive volume in the head, small plug pocket flared just a bit and just figureing a .045 gasket. Hopefully gives room for another cheap and common piston if one ever wants to up the comp, or if one ever bores the block and runs a larger bore to keep the comp within reason |
i come up with 9.57.1 on a 8 inch rod 6 inch stroke 4.5 bore with a 1 comp. height piston no reliefs . I use 12.656 for deck height 8+3+1=12 leaves piston .698 below deck with a .042 gasket . IF it were mine it would have a bbc promod flattop with a 1.27 comp height on a 8 inch rod with a 6 inch stroke and a .040 top low tension ring package but its not mine. quote burger king you build it your way. he could be real talented and cut two blocks and welded them together to get a 13 plus inch deck without a deck plate . its possible that theys a allis running around with a cowl hood.
Edited by mlpankey - 02 Dec 2010 at 7:31pm
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wi50
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 5:02pm |
I was refering to the original poster with the 9" rod, 4.5 bore and 6" crank, 1" piston and .5 deck, .060 gasket.
Those numbers didn't add up but if it's a typo and an 8 inch rod, we get around 11 to 1. I've alwayse used 12.65-12.66 for a deck height on the blocks, but then the .5" below deck doesn't figure out in the original post either.
I shot for an even 9 to 1 in my little engine, 8.52 rod, valves make a little positive volume in the head, small plug pocket flared just a bit and just figureing a .045 gasket. Hopefully gives room for another cheap and common piston if one ever wants to up the comp, or if one ever bores the block and runs a larger bore to keep the comp within reason
Edited by wi50 - 02 Dec 2010 at 5:10pm
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 1:59pm |
wi50 wrote:
I was figureing it was around 11 to 1 comp with an 8 inch rod...... |
4.5 stroke 4.125 bore 8 inch rod 1.425 piston with 12.5 cc dish 5.1 cr .981 thousandths below deck with .042 compressed gasket. 8.5 long rod is 8.7.1 cr
Edited by mlpankey - 02 Dec 2010 at 2:02pm
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wi50
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:26am |
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I was figureing it was around 11 to 1 comp with an 8 inch rod......
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Steve M C/IL
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 9:16am |
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C'mon,he said he was a little thick sometimes.
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JayIN
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 6:44am |
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I smell something kinda funny...............
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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mlpankey
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 6:17am |
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A 9 inch rod with a 6 inch crank is 12 inches a .60 thosuandths head gasket is .710 thousandths of space left for a piston and no room for a combustion chamber with a allis head . I think theys some leg pulling if you know what i mean? just mathematically dont work out. 9 inch rod 3 inches for a six inch stroke = 12 inches a 1 inch compression height piston is 13 inches and the block isnt that tall with the head gasket of .060 thick. like about 1/4 a inch being that tall. how does running the piston outside the block work ?
Edited by mlpankey - 02 Dec 2010 at 6:27am
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 9:09pm |
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mine has a short crank which is the only reason it stays alive, once in a while depending on the conditions it'll stay above 6000 for most of the run, but that's uncommon most of the time 4200-5600 with peak power around 4500, and not much below 3000 . There's some uncommon methods to get it breathing, once I bottle fed it, but never messed with it anymore .
Edited by wi50 - 01 Dec 2010 at 9:17pm
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dharpo
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 9:00pm |
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i don't run outlaw classes where rpms are unlimited. i pull in 4,6,8,12mph classes. plus, i wouldn't want to spin such a long arm much more than 2000. i'm a poor man and want it to last. i,m averaging 4 years between builds.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:59pm |
I take it the welded rods are just fine? Just today I made a jig to use the 226 Allis rods with 350 chevy wide beam rod tops, I cut the top off the Allis rod, cut the top with a stub of the chev. rod and made plugs to hold each end and a means of centering things and locking them in place for welding and boxing. They are going to be 8.5" long when done, or maybe a bit just either side depending on some other factors to hold some 4.125" bore automotive pistons with a .928 pin. No strokeing, just a little 240 inch engine with a bit of a cam, some head manifold and carb work and I haven't nailed down the comp. yet, somewhere around 9 to 1, for a pump gas, 4 mph class, something that's "dad proof" so he can have a little fun and we don't have but a few hundred bucks above the cost of an overhaul kit in the engine, and can run augers, rake some hay or fill in on some light farm work. It's one of those classes where 75 hp will win, 100 will get you kicked out so hopefully this will make in the high 60's or low 70's for HP
Summit has a good selection of pistons, found some Selaed Power hyperutectics that are 1.425 comp hite, -12.5cc for about $27 each, a new set of rings and some new sleves for the Allis. I maybe should have used a little taller one and a little shorter rod, but it's done now
I've welded and boxed rods for guys in the past in some high compression high speed engines and they have alwayse been fine.
Edited by wi50 - 01 Dec 2010 at 9:05pm
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wi50
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:48pm |
Just for kicks, my rods are 9.1" Came from a Perkins diesel, 9" to start with and then plugged the pin end and re bored. Have to look for sure but I think 2.25" crankpin IIRC.
I made a twin disc clutch in my WC,
I made a steel flywhel, similar to the original. The ring gear placement is in the original location, the dish is deeper and the flywheel is just a bit longer. Inside I made a .400 thick floater plate keyed into the flywheel on 4 tabs. THe clutch discs are very similar to OEM, just a bit thinner and solid hubs. I trimmed the hubs a bit, the nose cone of the starter needed a bit of trimming and the throw out berring carrier needed just a bit of machining.
My engine isn't a real torque monster so typicaly tighten things up, spin it about 4500 RPM, on the line and let it come up from there. Once in a while if I run 3rd gear or knowing it's going to be a real hard pulling short run, I'd hold out for 6000 rpm before getting to far downrange.
What kind of groundspeed do you fella's get with these big engines in typical going 4500 lb classes?
Edited by wi50 - 01 Dec 2010 at 8:51pm
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dharpo
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:44pm |
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no deck plate. .060" copper gasket.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:38pm |
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yeah i knew they were custom made being 9 inches long . how thick is the deck plate
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dharpo
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:36pm |
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not springfield but i do pull there. rods are homemade 283 chevy bottom welded to 350 chevy pin end.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
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Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 8:29pm |
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dharpo you from sprigfield? valves are plenty big enough. 120 hp is a good reliable build for the 262 gas rod. how thick is your deckplate?
Edited by mlpankey - 01 Dec 2010 at 8:35pm
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