This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Various 301s

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
GWS View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Location: Central NY
Points: 269
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GWS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Various 301s
    Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 6:10pm
Can someone explain the progression of the 301? From the 190XT through the 7020, it kept gaining more hp. Just bigger turbos, or intercoolers? 
I'm looking for about a 100 hp tractor to get back to farming some of my own ground in retirement a few years down the road. Putting together some machinery now. It'll be mostly haying. The heaviest work will be pulling a 4x18 IH 720 plow. Several years ago I sold my 190XT and my 7030. BIG mistakes!
Anyway, I'm mainly wondering about reliability of the various 301 engines. 
Thanks for any input.

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 6:32pm
1964 the non-turbo 77 HP One-Ninety. 1967 the 64 HP One-Eighty. 1970 the 74 HP 185 up thru 1981.    1965 the turbo with eng oil cooler 94 HP 190 XT.     1972 the claimed 94 HP 200 with a better turbo, lower compression pistons and dual oil filters with deeper pan and crankshaft driven oil pump.    1975 the 106 HP model 7000 with copper sleeve cylinder head injectors, DM-4 injection pump.   1977 the 123 HP 7020 ( at 2300 RPM) with another upgrade in turbo and larger engine oil cooler and intercooler and bypass engine oil filter and piston cooling. Block was also strengthened in ribbing from main caps thru the upper deck for strength.  1979 the 107 HP 7010 was a toned down 7020 minus intercooler and bypass engine oil filter.  8010 was also at 107 HP and same as 7010 engine until later on when they went to an AmBach fuel system and a different design eng oil cooler. All of these engines are reliable if the cooling system is treated and maintained to prevent cavitation erosion and sleeve Oring failure. Seldom have I ever overhauled one for being worn out. They usually have neglected cooling systems and get coolant in the oil and then have to be repaired which means overhauled. The ones with copper injector sleeves do not like to be overheated, as you will pay for that mistake down the road. Engines that get regular 100 hr oil changes always outlive those that get 150 hr oil changes.

Edited by DrAllis - 03 Nov 2022 at 7:17pm
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 11:14am
I'm hoping that my XT outlives me. I stuck a ton of money into the 301 in it a few years ago. Complete engine rebuild, head and all. On Mack's advice, had an extra "O" ring groove cut in the sleeves on the coolant side, thus another "O" ring for that. Gets nothing but heavy duty anti freeze with the SCA in it, changed annually. Gets very regular engine oil changes, at the very most 100 hours. Tractor gets worked, but I darn sure wouldn't say abused. It's a productive Tractor, and we love it. Hopefully get years more service out of it. Not bad for a 55 year old Tractor
Darrel
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 8:25pm
The extra (top) Oring is a great idea. Sad thing is, back in 1964 & maybe 65 A-C actually used THREE sleeve Orings!! They had piston scoring in some engines (I'd guess XT's turned up to 120 HP) and their fix was to eliminate one Oring so the sleeve wasn't being squeezed too much. So, for the next 20 years we had 301 sleeve Oring problems in far greater numbers than the 426 engines which had three Orings on them.
Back to Top
LionelinKY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Radcliff,KY
Points: 695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LionelinKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2022 at 4:01am
All of these engines are reliable if the cooling system is treated and maintained to prevent cavitation erosion and sleeve Oring failure. 

OK Doc, enlighten me please as to what treatment you are referring to and what the brand is that you most recommend. I grew up with my Dad's 1966 190XT and inherited it upon his passing and he never mentioned anything about any additives for the coolant system-just regular change intervals. It is all on me to keep her going now and I'll take any extra insurance that I can get. Thanks
"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
Back to Top
Charlie175 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Shenandoah, VA
Points: 6368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2022 at 5:25am
The Coolants needs the SCA additive in it.
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2022 at 6:37am
45 years ago, when I discovered the product "Nalcool 2000", we recommended coolant to be changed every 2 to 3 years. This coolant change consisted of new heavy-duty antifreeze and distilled (or rain) water to mix it 50/50. Tap/well water has always been a bad idea. At the same time, 2 bottles of Nalcool 200 was added. Customer was instructed to add an additional bottle of Nalcool every other engine oil change. From that day on, I have never had to repair any of my customers engines for coolant in the engine oil due to sleeve Oring or cavitation erosion. The only engines I've ran into trouble with were other dealerships customers who I inherited from dealer closings. The system required some maintenance, but even if one missed a coolant change or adding a bottle when recommended, the tractors system still seemed to be protected. The most damage is always done when the engine is under full throttle/full load from the vibrations it creates. Now, in the last 20 or so years, you can purchase heavy-duty coolant already treated and pre-mixed for freeze strength. A much easier way to go and available from Caterpillar and Cummins for sure and I think by now many other places. The proper coolant always has a pinkish red color to it.
Back to Top
LionelinKY View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Radcliff,KY
Points: 695
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LionelinKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 12:58am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

45 years ago, when I discovered the product "Nalcool 2000", we recommended coolant to be changed every 2 to 3 years. This coolant change consisted of new heavy-duty antifreeze and distilled (or rain) water to mix it 50/50. Tap/well water has always been a bad idea. At the same time, 2 bottles of Nalcool 200 was added. Customer was instructed to add an additional bottle of Nalcool every other engine oil change. From that day on, I have never had to repair any of my customers engines for coolant in the engine oil due to sleeve Oring or cavitation erosion. The only engines I've ran into trouble with were other dealerships customers who I inherited from dealer closings. The system required some maintenance, but even if one missed a coolant change or adding a bottle when recommended, the tractors system still seemed to be protected. The most damage is always done when the engine is under full throttle/full load from the vibrations it creates. Now, in the last 20 or so years, you can purchase heavy-duty coolant already treated and pre-mixed for freeze strength. A much easier way to go and available from Caterpillar and Cummins for sure and I think by now many other places. The proper coolant always has a pinkish red color to it.

Well, I guess that information never made it to NY or Dad ignored it if it did since I know for a fact that our XT always had and still has the traditional green coolant running in it. Perhaps it helped that the water source for our farm was a fresh water spring instead of a well-IDK. At 17 yrs old, I started working on our neighbor's farm who also happens to be a trained mechanic. He ingrained in me from day #1 to never use any tap water in coolant systems and that it was definitely worth the extra expense to use distilled water instead. Advice I have followed to this day concerning all of my vehicles. I do remember Dad getting SCREAMING mad at any of us if he ever caught us running the XT at WOT. Nobody ever got their @$$ beat over it but he would ban you from running it for a while which seemed more effective because we did realize that it was a privilege to run HIS tractor because so few were ever allowed to even touch it.
"My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic"
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8688
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 6:51am
Ok, Lionel, I am naive. What does "WOT" mean?
Darrel
Back to Top
injpumpEd View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5073
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 7:10am
Wide Open Throttle!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
Back to Top
DrAllis View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 7:29am
Typically, model 180's (less RPM, less timing, less HP) have far less sleeve/coolant issues than the later 185's with more RPM, timing and HP. Sleeve vibrations !!
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8504
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2022 at 8:08am
Sleeve vibration is real. Had a Cat 3406B that timing advance got worn and stuck full advance. Run really good!! Till I'd dumped antifreeze in the crankcase. 1&6 had no sign of an oring left. The closer to the center of the block the better they were.3&4 were pretty good.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum