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VALVE SIZES |
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dharpo
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Location: middletennessee Points: 20 |
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Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 11:54am |
I ASKED THIS QUESTION A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND DUE TO OLD AGE HAVE FORGOTTEN THE ANSWER. I'M BUILDING A 4.5 BORE X 6 INCH STROKE 226 BLOCK MOTOR. WAS WANTING TO KNOW WHAT ARE GOOD INTAKE AND EXHAUST VALVE COMBINATIONS FOR 2,OOO RPM MAX.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20494 |
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Fifteen years ago, I built two indentical engines (4.625" bore x 5.800" stroke) at the same time. One had stock valves and the other had larger valves (customer furnished the head ready to go). Both had intake guides shortened up flush on the bottom to open up the port and that was about it for anything fancy for head work. Both had same carb and camshaft grind. When they dyno'd they were essentially the same at 2,000 rpm full load. I always figured the stock valve engine would lug longer before it stalled.
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wi50
Orange Level Joined: 24 Sep 2010 Location: weegieland Points: 1010 |
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A lot of the heads I do for these, I use a 1.85" intake valve and a 1.6 or 1.625 " exhaust valve. In extreme cases a 1.9" intake. With a smaller engine the stock ones are fine. Good work in other areas, proper valve, bowl, throat and seat work will be more important than a little difference in valve size.
At low speed there's a lot of time to take a breath, the parts don't need to be that big, just shaped verry nice. I use a cheap and common automotive valve set that is the right length and cut the intakes down to size. If you want send a PM and I'll look sometime and find the part numbers when I'm at the shop. Rember the manifold and carb need more work than the head will. The manifolds don't flow all that well untill the corners get knocked back and radiused off on the short side radius. Or I typically end up welding them up on the outside before porting them. Velocity is your friend at low speed, and the larger the valve, the slower the speed past it. The ports in the Allis are shaped to bad and the intake charge gets bent around to much. Read the other thread here about cam and carb help, I put a post on the second page explaning some things, just don't pay attention to our forum dolts bickering. Might find some of that post usefull. What carb are you running and what work done to it, how much manifold modification? that will have more influence on valve size than anyone's advice. Edited by wi50 - 23 Nov 2012 at 1:13pm |
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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dharpo
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Dec 2010 Location: middletennessee Points: 20 |
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THANKS GUYS. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW.
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AS LONG AS THERE ARE SHADE TREES I CAN BE CALLED A MECHANIC
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mlpankey
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Vols country Points: 4580 |
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May be late but I normally use 1.940 intake sbc cut down and 1.6 sbc exhaust .100 longer than stock with 5/16 stems before under cut and bronze guides from S I valves comp 920 outer springs on intake valves 940 outer spring on exhaust with no cups . I have four new intake valves and the springs can get the bronze guide blanks if you would like . I have to turn them down and cut them to length. If you want to order from si and dont want to have to turn the guide blanks to fit order the bronze 11/32 stem diameter guide for a 392 hemi part number vg11743/00 they are the riight diameter to replace the allis guides without machining just need trimmed for length. Si valves number is 800 -56-4valves . I am in east tn and can give references of cylinder heads with these parts from ny to mississippi. Of coarse if you use the 392 guides youll need to purchase standard diameter sb chevy valves they are 11/32 and some come undercut to 5/16. but the 5/16 valve stem is a nice piece for a little extra work on a valve guide blank
Edited by mlpankey - 23 Nov 2012 at 6:54pm |
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LouSWPA
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Clinton, Pa Points: 24262 |
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while on this subject, do any stock 226 manifolds flow better than another? in other words, is the ports larger for say a -17 v -45, etc
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
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JayIN
Orange Level Joined: 18 Dec 2009 Location: SE/IN Points: 1982 |
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Good question,Lou.
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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mlpankey
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Vols country Points: 4580 |
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Yes the lp gas li believe thsy were vincents. Lerio lp then the d17 proobly third.
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wi50
Orange Level Joined: 24 Sep 2010 Location: weegieland Points: 1010 |
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I've made an adapter and flow tested different manifolds. The Johnson LP is about the best, but there's a 2 pc Johnson that flows worse than the Allis.
The Leroi is also a little behind the Allis manifold, it's round and sharp corners kill it, though the exhaust is nice.
There really isn't much difference in the Allis ones, probably more difference from one to another than one model to another. The WD-45, D-17 and Gleaner E ones, slight variances but the later ones have a higher divider in the exhaust which is a good thing.
The aftermarket Vinson is pretty good, a bit better than the Allis variants.
As far as porting on one, there's a quick 25% or more without haveing to work verry hard. If one really wants to work welding and makeing a custom parts there's lots to be found. But the Vinson has a little advantage as the carb neck is wider and can be flared back on it more so than the others.
Weather you use one of the Allis ones or a Vinson, cutting back the corners and forming a D shaped radius, or a flat bottom on the round port, flareing the carb neck back and also cutting the largest radius you can will show results.
When I cut quite a radius on the bottom of the intake runner, where the manifold turns to flow into the head I drill a hole in the face of the intake manifold where the runners go straight into the head. There's a dimple cast on the outside of the manifold there. Tap it and thread a bolt in for filler to anchor to. I tip the manifold at a 45* angle and pour some epoxy in to fill the top corner after cleaning and blasting. What I'm doing is filling the dead spot, the air will follow the bottom of the port, it takes quite a bit of filler to effect the flow. But the more gentle that short side radius can be the more air the manifild will move. FOr some of them I cut the back side apart and fabricate a complete new one, sometimes I end up welding the back side up so I can cut more radius, make a custom carb flange and neck. It just depends on the application and what's needed.
Weather your engine can use it or show the results depends on where the weak link is. It's alwayse interesting to do a head, get the numbers, do a manifold and then test them togather.
On the valve subject. John Deere engines like the 202 through 276 4 cyl's and the 3 and 6 cyl variants of that family use a valve that isn't much more than the Allis stock ones are. It's an easy upgrade as there's no custom guide work, and stock seats, etc all work out with some trimming. I just had a head apart one day and thought things looked close, did a little measureing and it makes for agood substitute valve that is common. I'll measure for sure but I think 1.77" is the intake valve diameter for the Deere. I've got another set in a box for someone doing a little upgrade without extensive work.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey
Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Vols country Points: 4580 |
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Wich leroi did you test 2 of them one has center exhaust outlet one has exhaust outlet toward front. Knocking old guides out and new guides in i wouldnt consider custom work but thanks for the flattering. Its alot harder in my opinion to bush guides than it is to replace.
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