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Under sink water heater?

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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 5:07am
Who has experience with these?
Tankless or mini tank?
I see them anywhere from $50.00 to $400.00
I want one to go under a sink in my shop. Just for hand washing.
I could even sneak parts in this sink without much trouble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morpar55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 5:54am
When we built our house my wife was all about going with the tankless design. When I looked at the actual energy needs (how much does it use to heat the water to the desired temperature quickly versus the cost of keeping a tank full of hot water) it was a no-brainer. We stuck with a 50 gallon electric water heater. To be fair a part of this decision was also based on the fact we have LP and not natural gas, but even looking at the electric versions wasn't going to be cost effective for the whole house.
 
Having said all that for what you want to do one of these sounds perfect. You likely aren't going to have 5 people taking showers, washing clothes, and doing dishes in your application so it should work pretty well and be cost effective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:17am
Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

Who has experience with these?
Tankless or mini tank?
I see them anywhere from $50.00 to $400.00
I want one to go under a sink in my shop. Just for hand washing.
I could even sneak parts in this sink without much trouble.

At this point I’d be lucky to wash my hands twice a week in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:31am
I have two in my shop. One in each bathroom and they work well if the supplied water is clean. I'm on a well and the flow switches required frequent cleaning before I installed filters.

Only negative to them besides a very high current draw is if you flow water fast, it only gets luke cold. A slow flow or trickle and it will burn you.

Both mine are 240VAC and are on dedicated service electrical connections.

If doing it over I'd install a two gallon tank type under each sink as more consistency that way and the cost of operation is not that great. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:36am
You have RUNNING water in your shop ?? sigh..
 and now you want HOT water ! dbl sigh....
I've been using a bucket of 'water' and dish soap for 30 years....trpl sigh.....

Buy whatever small(2-5 gal ?) electric water heater you can find, it'll be 120V, need a separate 15 Amp feed to it. If possible, add some insulation around it to keep more of the heat in it.
This will be the easiest, cheapest, cleanest solution...

hot water in the shop, yeesh, what's next a TV ???LOL
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:46am
Jay we drilled a new well last November. While I was at work my wife and the well driller decided my shop would make a nice place for the pump house.
I built a room in there to house the pressure tank n filters n such.
Wife says it needs a sink so I don’t come in the house with dirty hands.
It’s already wired for it.
Tight on space. An under sink unit would fit best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:46am

 When i moved the washer and dryer from center of house,,to it's new location,  I did not want to run all new hot water line to tap into the kitchen supply. So, I installed a 5 gallon 115 VAC water heater in an enclosed and insulated alcove under the floor of the new utility room location. It feeds only the washer and has done the job for the washer for bout 14 years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:51am
I put a 120 volt 6 gallon tanked heater under my shops sink (in the cabinet).
I wash my hands all the time, having the instant hot water
is very nice-no waiting and wasting water. I have it set to very hot,
it will melt grease and butter off dishes very quickly. So far I haven't draw enough to appreciably lower the temperature. It recovers quicker that I figured.
The price was about $270 two years ago now I see they are
more like $380. If it breaks I will replace it, it has bought some civilization to
my cave.
The tank-less heaters require a lot of power draw while running, even the wimpy ones.
 I have just 60 amps to my shop. I was worried that with 5hp air compressor, a/c and lights I may trip a breaker. So I got the lower wattage tank heater. I really wanted a 240 volt model (to spread the load between both legs on the panel) , but that was special order (AO Smith).

It has worked out well, I am glad I did it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 7:02am
I agree with the previous mention, every Tankless I have been privy to was SCALDING hot in Slow Flow and barely kept up warm on High Flow.  I put a 240v 30 gallon in my shop, serves as a good supply for Hands Washing, Paint Brush Washing and should the Need Arise I installed a shower stall so if get sprayed down with something vile have enough to get it off and not freeze to death in the process.

Our Well tank and controls are also in that shop room.


Edited by DMiller - 23 Feb 2022 at 7:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 7:18am
Oh yes, Jay, most of us have running water, shower, hot tub and an assistant named Pepper Potts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 7:32am
Son has a 5 gallon electric under the sink in shop - mainly had washing and works good as not a lot of demand for water there . 
 When you mentioned under sink I was thinking of small electric heater for kitchen faucet as now that hot water run is 30 ft of piping and it takes some time to run faucet before you get hot water at sink . 
 Would like to find a small unit that would give me almost instant hot water until the water in pipe can transfer heat from main water heater . 
 Guess other answer would be to put in a small circulation pump and a return line 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 7:58am
For tankless I would go with with higher wattage to keep up with flow rate. Check the specs on the units to see what GPM they are rated for. If you can only get hot water at a trickle, what value is that? The advantage here is you have hot water as long as you want it. A small tank is just that. Small. Consider how you want to use hot water. Tank type also draws current to heat and maintain hot water even when not actually using water so not necessarily an advantage in energy consumption.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

Originally posted by Thad in AR. Thad in AR. wrote:

Who has experience with these?
Tankless or mini tank?
I see them anywhere from $50.00 to $400.00
I want one to go under a sink in my shop. Just for hand washing.
I could even sneak parts in this sink without much trouble.

At this point I’d be lucky to wash my hands twice a week in there.

If it is only going to be used occasionally, I would definitely go "on-demand" (tankless). Even though it will cost more to run when you use it, why would you want to keep water hot all the time to use it a couple times per week?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 9:58am
did a quik compare at momerdepot.ca....
tank,2.5gpm $230, tankless $770 !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FloydKS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 10:29am
At the last church that I was pastor, before retired, we had a one or two gallon below a sink in church.. worked wonderful for washing hands and even the couple that cleaned church liked it, they were the reason we installed it ... below a mop sink. The hot water was actukally for them, but I enjoyed the hot water too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 200Tom1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 12:35pm
Thad. I have had 1st hand experience with both of them. When I built my new tire shop in 2000, we put a 5 gallon electric tank type unit in the back room under the sink, we put in for us guys to clean up. It worked great if I were going to do it again, I would. When we put up our new honey processing building in 2009 we put in an on demand electric unit from Bosch. Not the smallest nor the largest unit. We had seen a lot of bad reviews of the on demand units claiming they don't put out much hot water. When I came home from Germany in the mid 1970's these heaters were in use everywhere over there. I contacted my electrician buddy. He told me 90% + of the problems of with them not putting out hot water was caused by improper wiring.   (IE) too light wiring. He wired the new one we had and it never failed to put out all the hot water we needed. In Oct of 2021 a part on the heater failed and I chose to replace it with a larger unit as I wanted to use hot water through a pressure washer. The new heater puts out more hot water than I'll ever need in the commercial kitchen and works well with the pressure washer. The new heater was $400.00 on sale for $350.00 less 11% Either one will work for you but if you ever want to use hot water in a pressure washer, a small tank type will not work for you.

Edited by 200Tom1 - 23 Feb 2022 at 12:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 12:42pm
  When I was working I put a 110 electric water heater about 12" square and 4-6" thick in the restroom to wash my hand and it was great, when you turn on water to wash your hands you usually turn on a little cold water any ways cause the waters going to get hot.


Edited by tadams(OH) - 23 Feb 2022 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 12:51pm
A small "tank heater" will heat the 5 gallons of water in 10- 15 minutes.. Put a switch on the power and turn it on - off with the lights when you go into the shop if you dont want it on all the time..   They have 3 different models at MENARDS for $200.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 1:04pm
not saying it doesn't work just
that Amazon unit seems 'fishy'...

Claims 3000w, and 110V...

3000/110 = 27 AMPS yet plug is std 15amp unit.....

maybe they use 'new math' ??


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 2:21pm
Needs to fit under a 30” vanity with sink dead center. Or it would have to be on a shelf up on the wall.
I don’t intend to run it continually.
Like Steve says, switch it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 2:30pm
Rheem makes one 9 3/4” by 14” tall. 2.5 gallon tank at Homedepot. Has a 120 plug on it. I think I want that.

Edited by Thad in AR. - 23 Feb 2022 at 2:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 4:19pm
I’m surprised at the negative comments on the tankless type other than it takes longer to get hot. I have a Rheem in the house. It’s gas and it’s just as hot at high flow as low flow. I also have a Kinnetico softener and filter so that may be why it’s working so well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 5:29pm
Because of the rapid heat rise they tend to lime up quicker and maintenance can be an issue. Your softener and filter help immensely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by plummerscarin plummerscarin wrote:

Because of the rapid heat rise they tend to lime up quicker and maintenance can be an issue. Your softener and filter help immensely.

Do you mean the on demand lime up quicker?
The water I plan to tap in to isn’t filtered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2022 at 6:59pm
When you heat up hard water, the minerals (particularly the lime) will 'bind' up... it will coagulate together and become stone film.

This isn't just a tankless-thing, it happens in ANY water heater.  It'll happen in a kitchen pot, and it's really obvious when you look down and see the lime stains in a coil-shape mathing the element in your stove.

Most tank-type heaters will, upon decommissioning, have about 30 pounds of lime scale caked up in the bottom... and over their lifetime, that lime scale gradually decreases the water heater's ability to heat FAST, especially for gas heaters, because that heat is highest at the point of application-  the bottom.  Cut one open sometime.

(just happens to be that the chemical binding occurs for many of the same reasons that concrete curing is an exothermic, and temperature-variable process).

I have two small electric on-demands... both 120v.  Fine for hand washing, and yes, they're sensitive to flow rate.   Electric water heating is NOT as effective as using NG or propane, but don't shun a large-volume on-demand.  I installed a Bosch on-demand NG unit in our previous home, and when you turned the HOT, you got cold water for about four seconds, but the burner lit immediately, and the 5th second, it came out hot, and stayed hot, until you were done with it.  12 people needing showers AND the laundry running AND the dishwasher?  No problem.

Was it energy efficient?  Contrary to what one would think,  yes... because it's only burning when you're using, not spending all day with a flame on trying to catch up from the morning.  The gotcha, is that if you have only enough cold water for one regular and one short shower, your second shower is short... hence... no more hot water.

When you have lots of hot water, you have the ability to USE lots of hot water... and the fuel consumption to do so, follows.

The really big advantage of the small one (aside from space) is that it doesn't take but a moment to cut off the supply and drain the tankless for winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 7:03am
Dave I have removed the bottom element and spooned put water heaters many a time.
Our water here has line/calcium but not near like other places I’ve lived.
What we fight here is clay/ yellow colored water.
A drip coffee maker will last a few years here.
Y old place lucky to get one year and that with often cleaning.
My last water heater was replaced at 18 years of age. Didn’t have to but was doing a major remodel and already had it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FloydKS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 12:13pm
Thad... the small 2.5 gal unit that you describe is what we had in the church... i would recommend it ... would be good to wash hands or other 'work' that you need a little hot water.

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No matter what- it will never be big enough, just get a big one and never think about it again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 1:02am
I've had similar sediment, Thad.  On this house, I get reddish silt, and it's heavy enough at times to plug up my supply filters right quick.  My mitigation method, was to install a 3/4" high-flow electric irrigation valve  on the bottom discharge of my water tank, and it's on a timer that emits a 2-second blast every 12 hours.  This causes a short, but violent outflow   I enable that system for a couple days every month, and it keeps the water system pretty clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:08am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

I've had similar sediment, Thad.  On this house, I get reddish silt, and it's heavy enough at times to plug up my supply filters right quick.  My mitigation method, was to install a 3/4" high-flow electric irrigation valve  on the bottom discharge of my water tank, and it's on a timer that emits a 2-second blast every 12 hours.  This causes a short, but violent outflow   I enable that system for a couple days every month, and it keeps the water system pretty clean.

Thank you for this info. I need to learn more. 👍
I don’t mind buying filters but don’t want to go broke doing it.
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