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Tyler, prepare yourself

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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 5:11am
For a bombardment of questions.
Somewhere up in Ohio is an Index milling machine Rolling down the hiway in a freight truck headed for Arkansas.
First order of business will be figuring out the 3 phase electric. A friend of a friend has a ?VFD? For sale.
Then I have to see who can get all that hooked up.
My brother is an electrician but I don’t know what he knows about this kind of deal?
Then I’ll start hunting tooling.
I have to pick it up at a freight dock in Fayetteville. I wanted to ship it to the local lumber yard but it was $150 more for freight.
Hoping I can unload it with my old backhoe/loader.
Once I get it in the shop I’ll figure out how to get it where I want it.
The boss has a big skid steer with forks. I may pay them to unload it?

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thendrix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 5:55am
Congratulations on your find. Feel free to call or text anytime. I've seen riggers center the head on the pedestal then use forks under the ways to lift and move them. Always kinda made me cringe to see it but that's how they did it. Maybe it's the common way
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 6:02am
  WOW Thad,,,Now we KNow,,you are serious bout becoming a sure enough machinist,,,!!!ClapClap I expect you gonna get all kinds of help and suggestions on the electrical and ole Steve comes to mind.  You are doing what I and many others should be by selling those things we havent used in YEARS and THEN buy the things we WILL use.
 A course,,,se gonna want to see pics soon,,,,Clap
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desertjoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 6:08am
  OOOOOHHHhhhh,,I m like ole Tyler,, I would CRINGE if I had to watch them picking that heavy machine by the ways,,,No waay I could stay and watch!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 11:25am
Unloaded and reloaded mine with the 180, NO Turns made just lift then drag out trailer and run straight ahead with the bugger on forks, some scary moments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 11:58pm
by 'ways', they're referring to the sliding ram of a Bridgeport-type knee mill head.
The Index 55
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/12209-A.jpg

This is what the mill looks like from the side-  it doesn't have a sliding ram... but the center of gravity and lifting point geometry is basically the same as a Bridgeport.

Use a stout sling with padding under the 'neck' of the head.  In this photo, there's a securing strap that's been looped over the top of the column, around, under the neck, back over top of column.  You'll place the sling in the same spot as the loop under the neck.  It would be wise to bring a short piece of rope through the sling at the bottom, and tie it tight around the back of the column, so the sling cannot migrate towards the spindle.  protect the sling from the positioning shaft protruding from the side, and any other sharp points.  hook the sling above the top of the drive in 'basket' (not 'choke') orientation.

Lower the knee, and center the table right to left.  Run the table fully back against the column.  As you lift, once you've recieved all the weight on the hoist, the machine should hang neutral and vertical.  If it leans to one side, lower it to the ground, crank the table towards the HIGH side (either left to right) and if it's leaning back, crank the table forward, and lift again.

Now, if the guys loading it originally did it properly, it will already be neutralized for lifting.

I would NOT unload it from a high semi trailer with a skid-steer and forks... either a forklift, or a small truck-crane.  If you have a low utility trailer capable of the machine's weight, you could set it in that, but block the base, and strap the top tight in every direction, and drive SLOW, as the machine's high center of gravity will cause the trailer to roll and yaw.

You can unload it into your shop with a 2-ton chain fall and some stout overhead structure... a couple 4x4 posts with header block across the top, some lumber encasing the sides to keep it together, and using a building's rafters with some ancillary bracing to keep the arrangement upright, just lift it far enough to take weight off the trailer, and scoot the trailer out, then lower it onto the floor.  IF you have a pallet jack, you could fab a metal riser pallet to put under the machine (bolt it on!), then slip the jack under, lift JUST ENOUGH to shuffle it into place.

VFD will work well on a vertical mill.  I THINK the table drive system is independantly powered from the spindle, but I could very well be wrong... regardless, the VFD gives you infinite control of spindle speed and direction on-the-fly.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 4:23am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

by 'ways', they're referring to the sliding ram of a Bridgeport-type knee mill head.
The Index 55
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/12209-A.jpg

This is what the mill looks like from the side-  it doesn't have a sliding ram... but the center of gravity and lifting point geometry is basically the same as a Bridgeport.

Use a stout sling with padding under the 'neck' of the head.  In this photo, there's a securing strap that's been looped over the top of the column, around, under the neck, back over top of column.  You'll place the sling in the same spot as the loop under the neck.  It would be wise to bring a short piece of rope through the sling at the bottom, and tie it tight around the back of the column, so the sling cannot migrate towards the spindle.  protect the sling from the positioning shaft protruding from the side, and any other sharp points.  hook the sling above the top of the drive in 'basket' (not 'choke') orientation.

Lower the knee, and center the table right to left.  Run the table fully back against the column.  As you lift, once you've recieved all the weight on the hoist, the machine should hang neutral and vertical.  If it leans to one side, lower it to the ground, crank the table towards the HIGH side (either left to right) and if it's leaning back, crank the table forward, and lift again.

Now, if the guys loading it originally did it properly, it will already be neutralized for lifting.

I would NOT unload it from a high semi trailer with a skid-steer and forks... either a forklift, or a small truck-crane.  If you have a low utility trailer capable of the machine's weight, you could set it in that, but block the base, and strap the top tight in every direction, and drive SLOW, as the machine's high center of gravity will cause the trailer to roll and yaw.

You can unload it into your shop with a 2-ton chain fall and some stout overhead structure... a couple 4x4 posts with header block across the top, some lumber encasing the sides to keep it together, and using a building's rafters with some ancillary bracing to keep the arrangement upright, just lift it far enough to take weight off the trailer, and scoot the trailer out, then lower it onto the floor.  IF you have a pallet jack, you could fab a metal riser pallet to put under the machine (bolt it on!), then slip the jack under, lift JUST ENOUGH to shuffle it into place.

VFD will work well on a vertical mill.  I THINK the table drive system is independantly powered from the spindle, but I could very well be wrong... regardless, the VFD gives you infinite control of spindle speed and direction on-the-fly.

Dave it goes to a freight dock or n Arkansas. I have to go get it there. It will be strapped to a pallet.
I have a 16’ trailer to go fetch it.
I have an old gantry frame I built a long time ago. It’s not very wide. Just wider than a pickup truck. I built it to pull a motor when I was in highschool.
I’m thinking of redoing it and adding heavy castors.
If it’s not big enough I’ll have to figure something out.


Edited by Thad in AR. - 28 Jan 2023 at 4:24am
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Thad in AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 4:30am
DaveKamp it does have a separate motor on the back to power the power feed.
Is that motor going to be 3 phase?
Will I have to buy two different VFD’s
I hadn’t thought of that until you mentioned it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:17am
 Hey Thad,,and Dave Kamp too,,,!!  What are the chances both of the motors can be replaced by single phase 220 VAC motors?  I think that is what a guy in town did on his bridgeport years ago,,,,?? I know most people go the VFD or other methods and those units are very expensive and carry a notice that they are NOT returnable if they don't work for you,,,,?? BUT,,,I also know ole Dave is an electrical engineer and may be talked into taking care of all them little bitty details for you,,,,,,,,,WinkWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 4:53am
Originally posted by desertjoe desertjoe wrote:


 Hey Thad,,and Dave Kamp too,,,!!  What are the chances both of the motors can be replaced by single phase 220 VAC motors?  I think that is what a guy in town did on his bridgeport years ago,,,,?? I know most people go the VFD or other methods and those units are very expensive and carry a notice that they are NOT returnable if they don't work for you,,,,?? BUT,,,I also know ole Dave is an electrical engineer and may be talked into taking care of all them little bitty details for you,,,,,,,,,WinkWink

Yes poor Dave Kamp. I’m asking a lot of him. He has a lot of knowledge and has been very generous in sharing it.
I hope to find a way to repay him in some way. And I’m still not done bombarding him with questions either.
And and and Joe you’re somewhat at fault of me buying a lathe and these mills. I feel like you need to step in and assist me as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 10:05pm

 Well, Thad,,I HAD kinda been fretting bout that very thing,,,,but was hoping you had not noticed,,,,,WinkWink but that's OK,,,if old Shameless will just promise THIS ONE TIME to STOP that friggin maching before the spring is done with,,then I can be there to help with my part of the bargain,,,,cause THEN we gots to go north a little ways to snatch that 454 over to "OUR" best friend's yard,,,chit,,,he ain't using it anyways,,,sides ole Les told me to call him beforehand and he'd go help,,,,,,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 4:41am
Originally posted by desertjoe desertjoe wrote:



 Well, Thad,,I HAD kinda been fretting bout that very thing,,,,but was hoping you had not noticed,,,,,WinkWink 
but that's OK,,,if old Shameless will just promise THIS ONE TIME to STOP that friggin maching before the spring is done with,,then I can be there to help with my part of the bargain,,,,cause THEN we gots to go north a little ways to snatch that 454 over to "OUR" best friend's yard,,,chit,,,he ain't using it anyways,,,sides ole Les told me to call him beforehand and he'd go help,,,,,,

Ideally Shameless would have my jeep cleaned out and that 454 sitting in the back of it so all we have to do is pull it up on the trailer quick and give us more time to poke around, whoops I mean visit.
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