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Trump's Border Wall

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LouSWPA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:52am
Originally posted by modirt modirt wrote:

I would again remind all parties that border walls, etc. would not be needed if the country eliminated all the incentives driving all this. An "economic wall" that makes it impossible to survive in the US without legal permission would end all the illegals coming here in the first place. The culprits in this being the ones creating and offering the incentives.....and these culprits exist on both sides of the isle.

Same with drugs. The consequences for getting into that trade are not bad enough to discourage it. Worse, a lot of states are going the other way. They see drug addition as a good thing now that they are poised to take advantage of it through taxes. In places like CA, they are getting desperate to find the money needed for all the free stuff they are using to buy votes with. Santa Claus is now a drug dealer.

What is puzzling to me is why the medial and politicians lament the loss when a celebrity goes down via an overdose. Drug use being such an important part of the culture. A tragedy? Really? What else did they expect was going to happen?

If they were true to the cause, shouldn't they celebrate when a drug user goes down?

In all this.....we reap what we sow.  In  the case of drugs, that would be the "grim reaper".








true, so true, but reality is you have a better chance of physical barriers than eliminating all incentives. We have been trying that for more than 50 years with no sucess
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be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

Quite frankly, I am very upset with both parties right now (and have been for several years). It seems that the vast majority of our Senators and Representatives are more interested in their party's agenda, than they are for the good of the country. Before we throw too many stones at the Democrats, we have to remember that the Republicans practiced very similar obstruction during the Obama administration. Again, both parties seem more interested in their party agenda, than they do what is best for the country.

On the wall issue, for argument's sake, I will play the opposition on this one.

I live about 3 miles "as the crow flies" from the Canadian border. Smuggling is rampant in our area and has been for many years. During prohibition it was booze. After that it was cattle, cigarettes, etc. Now alien and drug smuggling are major problems. Heroin, cocaine, prescription drugs (oxycodone, fetanyl, etc.) and marijuana smuggling is totally out of control in our area.

Are we going to build a fence between the U.S.A. and Canada? A lot of the problem in our area is the St. Lawrence River which is the natural boundary, a lot like the Rio Grande in the south.

Someone pointed out, in effect,  that the cost is negligible. Earlier we had a massive tax cut that has significantly increased our national debt. Five billion here and five billion there adds up quickly. One of the basic principles of business is decreasing income means you need to decrease expenses to (at least) offset the decrease in income.

I think we have to forget about our support for or against an administration and ask our self several questions:
Is a a wall going to stop smuggling or move it to a different area (as has happened with existing sections of wall)? 
Is it worth increasing the national debt by another $5,000,000,000.00 (that is a lot of zeroes!!!)? 
Is this wall going to be a long term solution to the smuggling problem? 
Am I letting politics cloud my vision on this issue?

Just some food for thought.

WF Owner, I say trump is right, build the wall!  Think about it, where do the drugs come from?  Central and South America!  Building the southern wall is therefore the priority.  Get the drug flow stopped, or choked severely, and see what happens.  After that if sections in the north, need a wall, build one there, too!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 4:48pm
WE SPEND a COUPLE HUNDRED BILLION $$$$ every year to support the ILLEGALS in this country..  $5 BILLION to keep even HALF of them out would be a GREAT INVESTMENT.
 
And you are right, the BIGGEST problem is all the FREE CHEESE available to BORDER JUMPERS... If you would CUT OUT THE CHEESE, there would be a lot less incentive to travel  2000 miles to get here.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 6:43pm
No matter how you feel about the wall, it really has nothing to do with the ongoing budget issue, except that Trump has said he will not settle for any budget bill unless it includes money to fund the wall. I fail to see that as a reason to have 800,000 government workers go without their paychecks for an unknown amount of time.

Up until January 1, the Republicans had majority in the House and Senate. Why didn't they push the funding for the wall through before they lost control of the House? I feel for the government employees who are victims of this. It also has a big spin-off effect to anyone who does business with the federal government or government employees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 6:59pm
AND..........
 
Pee- Lousie Trump has said she will not settle for any budget bill unless it includes money to fund the wall. I fail to see that as a reason to have 800,000 government workers go without their paychecks for an unknown amount of time.
 
I AGREE !!! Its ONLY $5 BILLION, and they ALL SUPPORTED  IT 12 months ago .
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:02pm
It takes 60 votes IN THE SENATE to pass a bill............2017 - Shmucker originally agreed to $25 BILLION for the wall in exchange for DACA reform....... then he reniged on the deal.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 7:06pm
I have long said that these politicians should not have the right to vote on anything that they have not been part of, like ag laws rules regulations. If they don't own an ag business or a farm or deal directly with such, no right to vote If they want to vote on it, they have to immerse themselves init for two years and then let the votes begin... Yea, I know thats a long time, but by that time they might have gotten all the information to make a wise decision or else it wasn't necessary to bring up to a vote....


Somebody used the ZEROS effect for their argument on the 5 billion,   so here goes with comparing 5 b to couple hundred billion...
    5,000,000,000
200,000,000,000
 What is a life worth at the hands of an illegal that walked in without being stopped?

 I deal with containing my animals and each fence varies for the purpose and animal... and works effectivly if properly constructed...  so build a wall that is 99.9999% effective for the human animal... and it will save lives too.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:09am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

It takes 60 votes IN THE SENATE to pass a bill............2017 - Shmucker originally agreed to $25 BILLION for the wall in exchange for DACA reform....... then he reniged on the deal.
It does not take 60 votes to pass a bill.  It takes 60 votes for "cloture": to end the debate and bring to vote.  Then takes 51 votes to pass the legislation.   The "nuclear option" is a parliamentary procedure to circumvent the 60 vote rule, reducing it to 51 also.  That hasn't been done on legislation yet, it was used on appointments.
 
In "effect", 60 votes is required, if you never vote on it, it never gets passed. 
 
Interesting stuff.  No wonder we have perpetual gridlock.Confused


Edited by Tbone95 - 15 Jan 2019 at 7:31am
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:40am
so basically................ It takes 60 votes to pass a bill thru the Senate... The Republicans with 51- 53 can NOT do it without some TARDIE help............. that has been the problem for the past 2 years when you say " BUTT, BUTT, BUTT.. the Republicans ran the Senate.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:43am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

No matter how you feel about the wall, it really has nothing to do with the ongoing budget issue, except that Trump has said he will not settle for any budget bill unless it includes money to fund the wall. I fail to see that as a reason to have 800,000 government workers go without their paychecks for an unknown amount of time.



It has everything to do with the ongoing budget battle. Trump said? Just Trump? It takes two to tango.

Let us not forget, it was current speaker who said " he gets one dollar".

So this is a political pissing contest that has to play out.

But since you brought it up, remember, all this is just part of the noise. Partisan politics at it's worst.

So back to the original question.......what is the downside if the Trumpster gets the funding for border security. The nuts and bolts of it. Not the political flatulence.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:48am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

No matter how you feel about the wall, it really has nothing to do with the ongoing budget issue, except that Trump has said he will not settle for any budget bill unless it includes money to fund the wall. I fail to see that as a reason to have 800,000 government workers go without their paychecks for an unknown amount of time.

Up until January 1, the Republicans had majority in the House and Senate. Why didn't they push the funding for the wall through before they lost control of the House? I feel for the government employees who are victims of this. It also has a big spin-off effect to anyone who does business with the federal government or government employees.
Are you nuts? BUILD THAT WALL!
Mohammed was a murdering child rapist

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:50am
5.6 Brillion equals to less than $16 per citizen........... Heck lets tax the legal and illegal non citizens another $16 and add a bunch to what Trump asked for!
                                                                                                                                                  
There Tranny, better?


Edited by Lonn - Yesterday at 6:22am
Mohammed was a murdering child rapist

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 7:55am
The whole thing in the nutshell is the Dems do not have any problem spending figures with lots of zero's on the end, when it comes to their advantage. They don't give a rat's a$$ about the American people THEY are supposed to serve. PERIOD. They don't have any problem spending figures with lots of zero's when it comes to just a few of what you fellers have mentioned in this post. Add all of that up!  Add all the zero's that already went through the past.. say 40 years. Don't even go to 50! This country wasted enough money to build a wall to go all the way around the United States of America!!!  To me.. its all about the party and not the people. These ancient a$$hole Politians need to step down, get out, and let some new blood come in and negotiate things out.......  Nuff said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:41am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

so basically................ It takes 60 votes to pass a bill thru the Senate... The Republicans with 51- 53 can NOT do it without some TARDIE help............. that has been the problem for the past 2 years when you say " BUTT, BUTT, BUTT.. the Republicans ran the Senate.
Depends.....If it always took 60, then the VP would never have to vote on a 50-50, would be meaningless.  Obviously, numerous things come to a vote without a filibuster, and pass with a majority, not 60. 
 
Obviously, it's the contentious stuff that makes them want to filibuster, which is where the 60 comes in to play.  I SAID THAT.  We'll see if anyone ever goes "nuclear" on legislature rules.   Then, years from now, that rule will bite us in the ass when the tables have turned, so careful what you wish for.  Obstruction reigns.  In both directions.


Edited by Tbone95 - 15 Jan 2019 at 8:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2019 at 8:58am
The 60 vote cloture rule by and of itself it not bad, depending on how you want to look at it. If you think it is good that a minority in the US Senate can obstruct what a simple majority in the House, the Senate and a President want to steer them to the middle to gain consensus, then it's a good thing. But again, that assumes they are being reasonable statesmen about it. To obstruct just because you don't like the other guy's policy is lame.

Where the cloture rule has jumped the tracks is with it's enactment. Filibuster my a$$. Remember "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"? That was a filibuster.

Cloture vote is used to end the debate. What debate? There is no debating going on. The Senate left a bill on the floor and went home for Christmas. There was no debate and no vote to end the debate. They just counted noses and said it wouldn't pass, so went home.

Rather than go "nuclear", they need to be forced into a debate. Keep the Senate in session and force Chucky Wucky, Warren, Sparticus and all of them to stand up there in front of the cameras and read the Communist Manifesto, the Bible, Dr. Suess, etc. If they have a valid argument worthy of debate, let em make it. Otherwise, let them stall to their hearts content and look utterly stupid in the process. Let the public see em do it and decide what is good public policy and what is not. As it is, public only gets to see one side of it.....since the press only presents one side of it for them to see.  Negotiations and debate going on in the back of smoke filled rooms, strip clubs, bars and bathrooms.


Edited by modirt - 15 Jan 2019 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 11:30pm
Think if he said he's going to put solar panels on the wall, then they would vote it in lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob D. (La) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 5:59am
Just build the fence/wall on the other side of the border and call it foreign aid.
When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:17am
“5.6 Trillion equals to less than $16 per citizen....”

Better check your math.   5,600,000,000,000 divided by 326,000,000 is more than $17,000 per person!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:21am
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

“5.6 Trillion equals to less than $16 per citizen....”

Better check your math.   5,600,000,000,000 divided by 326,000,000 is more than $17,000 per person!
Like I said all you got is semantics or in this case a typo error. You know exactly that it is 5.6 BILLION.
Mohammed was a murdering child rapist

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:23am
“WE SPEND a COUPLE HUNDRED BILLION $$$$ every year to support the ILLEGALS in this country.. $5 BILLION to keep even HALF of them out would be a GREAT INVESTMENT.

And you are right, the BIGGEST problem is all the FREE CHEESE available to BORDER JUMPERS... If you would CUT OUT THE CHEESE, there would be a lot less incentive to travel 2000 miles to get here.”

How about some actual facts and sources to back up your claims?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:28am
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:


How about some actual facts and sources to back up your claims?
YOU FIRST!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 9:06am
Right on Lonn!!  Where the Hell is your facts n' sources Trammy when you post your blather?  Seems you're pretty consistant in that department especially when Lou, Lonn or Steve ask you and it never arrives! Oh wait!  NEW TOPIC!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 51 minutes ago at 3:19pm
Originally posted by TramwayGuy TramwayGuy wrote:

“WE SPEND a COUPLE HUNDRED BILLION $$$$ every year to support the ILLEGALS in this country.. $5 BILLION to keep even HALF of them out would be a GREAT INVESTMENT.

And you are right, the BIGGEST problem is all the FREE CHEESE available to BORDER JUMPERS... If you would CUT OUT THE CHEESE, there would be a lot less incentive to travel 2000 miles to get here.”

How about some actual facts and sources to back up your claims?



are you kidding me? the only person on here with less facts than you is MTSteve!

and that's fact
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 hours 35 minutes ago at 5:35pm
“WE SPEND a COUPLE HUNDRED BILLION $$$$ every year to support the ILLEGALS in this country...........
And you are right, the BIGGEST problem is all the FREE CHEESE available to BORDER JUMPERS... ...........


How about some actual facts and sources to back up your claims?
 
--------------
 
WE have been discussing this for 2 weeks and posted a DOZEN  links to show the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS we WASTE on ILLEGAL CHEESE... Either you can not comprehend, can not read, or refuse to face the FACTS... Go back and read all the posts the past couple weeks... PLENTY OF LINKS, even to TARD MEDIA.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 42 minutes ago at 8:28am
Looks like Mexico lost interest in protecting their southern border.  The caravans will get a free pass to the U.S. border.
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