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Trump's Border Wall

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modirt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trump's Border Wall
    Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 10:28am
Setting aside all the noise, right and left, if the Trumpster gets his wall, what is the downside?

The cost? $5 billion out of $4 trillion is 0.125% of the Federal Budget. Less than a rounding error. That is roughly the same as adding one penny to an $800 bill. So the cost is irrelevant.

What else? What can it possibly hurt?




Edited by modirt - 11 Jan 2019 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 10:30am
democrap votes
Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD10W,HD16

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, R62, R72 HD15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 12:33pm
well....... Nancy already said NOT A PENNY........ so the DOWNSIDE is that Nancy has to BACK UP and EAT SH*T for her BASE..
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 1:21pm
She supposedly put a dollar in there to build the wall... like that means anything other than being a snarky stinking britch...
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 1:43pm
Yes.....it is unfortunate she has painted herself in the corner on this, leaving herself no way out. Probably let her emotions and hatred for "The Donald" cloud her judgement. She may have been thinking he would be like every other spinless Republican she has dealt with......the one's who always blinked and caved. She is about to find out he is not like the others. This is a game of high stakes chicken and I don't see him chickening out.

But all this is part of the noise. Political wins and losses so to speak.

From a nuts and bolts, day in, day out perspective, what is the downside of giving Trump his wall?


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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 2:19pm
I am still thinking her Dementia will cut in and she will forget what she already stated by reversing her stance, Then ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 2:35pm
Modirt, it is not Trumps wall, it is our nation's wall...
 Downside, None.  As much as I hate how government has gotten into our daily lives on everything, right down to how we are to and not to discipline our children for the most finicky things, this wall is a whole different thing.  It is to protect us from what is happening daily, drug trafficking and illegals walking in instead of through proper entries and keeping out riff-raff.

  The down side is the longer these dem tards play their stupid hate trump games, the worse it will be...
  If they would just sit down and say,
-'yes, we do need the boarder secured and walls do deter the criminal activities... and we will work with you,  President Trump, in securing the funds to do it right and it will save the taxpayers billions of dollars over the long run. .... And we apologize for obstructing you on this piece of legislation. We are here for to do the will of our voting constituents, and for a better Nation, not here for our own purposes. Thank you Mr. President.'
-  They could save some face and possibly get re-elected again, but if they don't...,  and the screws get turned tighter, they might strip or break and what will there be left... no two party system or no repubs... or no dems... if the repubs lose, then it is back to bummer days and if you think you were on a hard ride down hill before, you ain't seen nothing yet... they will kick the stops out and whoosh to the bottom you will go and them screaming WHEEEEEEE untill they hit the bottom. and then wonder what happened.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 3:14pm
Like being flushed down the "not so jolly" green giant's toilet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by JC(WI) JC(WI) wrote:

Modirt, it is not Trumps wall, it is our nation's wall...
 Downside, None.  As much as I hate how government has gotten into our daily lives on everything, right down to how we are to and not to discipline our children for the most finicky things, this wall is a whole different thing.  It is to protect us from what is happening daily, drug trafficking and illegals walking in instead of through proper entries and keeping out riff-raff.

  The down side is the longer these dem tards play their stupid hate trump games, the worse it will be...
  If they would just sit down and say,
-'yes, we do need the boarder secured and walls do deter the criminal activities... and we will work with you,  President Trump, in securing the funds to do it right and it will save the taxpayers billions of dollars over the long run. .... And we apologize for obstructing you on this piece of legislation. We are here for to do the will of our voting constituents, and for a better Nation, not here for our own purposes. Thank you Mr. President.'
-  They could save some face and possibly get re-elected again, but if they don't...,  and the screws get turned tighter, they might strip or break and what will there be left... no two party system or no repubs... or no dems... if the repubs lose, then it is back to bummer days and if you think you were on a hard ride down hill before, you ain't seen nothing yet... they will kick the stops out and whoosh to the bottom you will go and them screaming WHEEEEEEE untill they hit the bottom. and then wonder what happened.


Good case for the downside if we don't get it built......I'm hoping somebody can explain a similar downside if we do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 4:01pm
I don't see a down side..
 
You spend money on STEEL and CONCRETE so people have jobs
You spend money on LABOR to put it up, so people have jobs
You spend money on several Dozers and scrapers, so people have jobs
You reduce the flow of ILLEGALS across the border, so less FREE CHEESE saves money
You reduce the flow of DRUGS across the border, so hopefully addiction drops
You make it easier for Border Patrol to do their job SAFELY , possibly less accidents / deaths
You send a message to Central America that if you come YOU WILL SET IN MEXICO for months.
 
Even if only half of this happens... WE WIN... there is no DOWN SIDE.
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grayray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 5:05pm
Steve, you forgot a few:

We reduce the flow of drugs across the border, so we spend less on drug enforcement.
We reduce the flow of drugs across the border, so we spend less in the courts with drug cases.
We reduce the flow of drugs across the border, so we spend less with our prison system housing these drug smugglers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grayray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 5:06pm
We reduce the flow of drugs across the border, so we spend less in our healthcare system treating the drug overdoses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 6:26pm
Long (very long) list of upsides starting to take shape.

Still waiting for opponents to present a downside.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 7:01pm
TARDS = BUTT, BUTT, BUTT................ I forgot what I was going to say !!  LOL
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fogarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 7:51pm
I think that there is possibly one.
This is it.
I think the cartels will escalate the violence at the border. I could see them attacking the border agents with car bombs and things like that.
More shoot outs.
If that were to happen, I would think we’d have to take military action.
When the wall gets completed, I hope I am wrong about this. But, they’ll be desperate and trying to get “even”.
The wall will get built. I don’t even know why it’s being debated.
Only time will tell how it works out.


Edited by Fogarty - 11 Jan 2019 at 7:55pm
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I’m not opposed to the wall.
Our national security is exactly what we should protect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2019 at 6:44am
Fogarty they ALREADY ARE attacking LEO from across the border. The TX LEO boats in the Rio Grande River are equipped with 240 Saw machine guns to set those attackers BACK and so far is working to a degree but ONLY 6 boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fogarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2019 at 8:38am
I know they are attacking them.
I just think they’ll escalate to a whole new level.
I also think they’ll screw with American tourists.
With the narcotic channels closed way down, they’ll have nothing to lose anymore.
Like I said earlier, National security is vital and I hope the wall does the job it’s envisioned to do.
But, I do believe there are going to be some growing pains along the way.
However, I know our country is strong and we will withstood whatever comes our way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2019 at 9:52am
Probably not, no benefit to do so they will move to other opportunity points. This will slow them significantly and force them to as cattlemen understand Choke points of control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fogarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2019 at 11:21am
I hope you’re right.
Time will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 12:31pm
I guess it's been long enough that if anyone was going to come up with a downside to Trump's wall they would have done it by now. Conclusion reached? Once you take all the noise out of it and objectively evaluate a border wall on it's merit, there is no downside.

The main objection is the left hates Trump, pure and simple. Going forward, if that is all they got, they will lose this debate and deservedly so. Living on hate is no way to run a railroad.....or country.

Years ago, I had occasion to visit with my then State Representative about a legislative issue I was tasked with working on. He happened to be a Democrat and the Governor was a Republican. His response  to me was if the Governor was for it, he was against it and he didn't care what it was. It was at that moment I understood what the difference was between a politician and a statesman. In his case he was a partisan puke more interested in political gamesmanship than anything related to public policy for the good of the citizens. For him, it was just a game....pure and simple. The very worst sort you would ever want to be in charge of anything. Good news is he was finally recognized for what he was and was sent packing. Hardcore left....partisan pukes all of them....fresh off an election win, are feeling their oats about now..... thinking they smell blood in the water. It may be their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 12:39pm
BTW, if there is a downside, is that a wall alone will not be enough to stem the tide. It will help, but a wall alone is not going to solve the problem. Get past that and you are in? Enough will still get past it to blow things up.

The real solution is to end any incentive to jump the border in the first place. If person can't find work, gets no free support in the form of housing, health care, food, and education......not a penny to be found or earned....no place to run and no place to hide..... and no more anchor babies.......in short, a hostile place to be without documentation, they won't come here illegally.

So the solution is not a topical ointment treating a local area of infection. It's a full spectrum antibiotic that is systemic to the whole body. 

The real culprits in all this are not those coming here.....it is those offering them incentive to come here. I think we all know who that is.


Edited by modirt - 13 Jan 2019 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 1:03pm
YES We Do!!
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Too many FREE BEES......... and more to come.. Free housing, free education, free health care. free CHEESE..........
 
and the part that really hurts is if you come here ILLEGALLY, then have a kid on this side of the border, the TARDIES think you are an AMERICAN CITIZEN... If mama is ILLEGALS, the laws should not count that way !
Trump Is Not A Lib or Conserv, He's a "Pragmatist." (someone who is practical and focused on reaching a goal. Has a straightforward, matter-of-fact approach and doesn't let emotion distract him or her
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2019 at 3:19pm
`MODIRT... You hit a home run with the bases all loaded... and sent the ball out of the stadium.
  What we have in the political system are career politicians and only concern is, how to get re-elected each time and then they go back to being themselves, working for the good of themselves and come out millionaires and billionaires... and are exactly what you said pollyticians, NOT STATESMEN... and we need HONEST STATESMEN... mmm if they are truly statesmen, they would also be honest by virtue.
  I got involved in the premis registration Identification  program, (NAIS). No, I did not signup for it... all the dairy producers had to sign up here in Wisconsin, because the bloated farts in Madison thought it should be mandatory and passed it as such while on the federal level it was just voluntary... a few more states had made it mandatory too.  Well, DATCP decided to flex their authority over a farmer that did not sign up, and took it to court. Farmer and wife represented themselves... The liberal female judge had never read anything up on this nor had any knowledge of it. She used the opinions of the prosecuters as the bases on how to judge the case, called the couple acting like first year law students... which neither were lawyers or students, put a court order on them that they could not proceed forward with this case after the verdict, and so many other things were wrong from that bench bitch. First, the datcp's ruling should have been looked at to see if it was CConstitutional and it wasn't...  well just a few minutes into the court, the crowd laughed at the foolishness she was presenting and she said that if there was another word out of anyone, she would have them all escorted out... meaning that the couple would be in there alone with her, the datcp and their lawyer too... kangaroo style... Molly was so irrational that I had thought about standing up and start walking for the door and say something like "I'm leaving before the whackadoodle judge has me thrown out' and I didn't dare get up because she was next to being a loose canon already and probably have me thrown in jail for contempt of court ... that was in contempt of itself already... Which was basically tried as thou it were traffic court... In the end, several days later we heard this courts decision was redacted... can not find transcripts of it, but sure was a monkey court with baboons for judge and prosecutors.  You would be ashamed of the judge and the court system that day.

https://ppjg.me/2009/12/24/wisconsin-independent-consumers-farmers-assoc-wicfanews-alert/


Motion For A New Trial

            Defendant’s Patrick M. and Melissa Monchilovich, husband and wife as one in the eyes           of the law moves this honorable court to grant a new trial per 805.15(1), 805.15(3), 806.07(1), 806.07(1)(b), 806.07(1)(c), 806.07(1)(h), 806.07(2), 805.16(4) of the Wis.     Stats.

To whom these gifts shall come, greetings from those who stand the gap in Wisconsin.  Due to the diligent efforts of those here we have aided the Monchilovich family in their endeavors in obtaining a motion hearing for a new trial.  Despite the attempts of groups foreign to our Republic and well-being, we will continue to seek remedy at law and in equity for the grievous assaults upon the people and properties within this Republic of Wisconsin. 

Having tried the Monchiloviches in traffic court, which lay outside the courts statutory authority, redress is sought for failing to provide lawful due process.  Let us all wish Pat and Melissa and their four children a happy holiday season in light of a new hope for the future.

            Defendant’s have continued to exercise due diligence towards gathering evidence to prove their innocence. The newly discovered evidence presented in this Motion for a New Trial demonstrates that the plaintiff withheld relevant factual information from the court.  A judgment based upon incomplete facts or factual inaccuracies is a notion that is abhorrent to the legal system. A “manifest injustice” would occur if this motion for a new trial is denied.

-------------------------------
 http://nafaw.com/?con=bad_data&paged=8
  The case at one time was referred to as the state’s first such NAIS prosecution, until a Polk County judge ruled in October that Patrick Monchilovich of Cumberland violated the four-year-old rule after he refused to register his premises. He was ordered to pay a civil forfeiture and court costs. (This was before the USDA Feb. 5 announcement.) - The Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection has received over twelve million dollars to tighten the screws on all Wisconsin livestock producers. Their enforcements are the most ruthless of any state with many other pending cases. Their grant moneys are also the largest considering the number of livestock producers in the state.




  "

USDA is stuck on Stupid!

August 31, 2009

PPJG original post. Author: Marti Oakley © August 22, 2009 4:23 pm cst

This is such a crock even I can’t believe it.  This is the actual public statement by USDA claiming they heard substantial support for NAIS/Premises ID.  What were these people smoking?

getimage~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Officials with the Department of Agriculture said they heard

substantial support for animal disease traceability during a series of

public meetings but many animal owners indicated concerns. Cost,

privacy, bureaucracy, liability in the event of a disease outbreak,

and the religious implications of such animal identification are

behind ongoing opposition to the department’s National Animal

Identification System.”

Those guys at the USDA are such jokers! And, after reading this press release from Wisconsin, the Wisconsin AG department must be in on the joke. The USDA listening sessions, each having been taped, shows that an estimated 95% of those attending were vehemently opposed to any such plan as the National Animal Identification System/Premises ID plans.

This small announcement has been picked up in various places but Wisconsin is one of those three test states that took cooperative agreement funding (bribery) to implement Premises Id through the state legislature.  Wisconsin is now preparing to go into Phase 2, NAIS.

Did I mention that Wisconsin wasn’t included in the listening session tours?  I wonder why?

It must have come as quite a shock to USDA representatives to be confronted with the high numbers of independent and family producers who showed up for each and every one of these sessions in every state where they were held.  I say this because for the most part USDA reps stuttered and stammered and had a look about them as if they were about to face the gallows. Then to have these same participants, whom the USDA was sure would be awed simply by its presence, whom the USDA was sure were just dumb farmers and ranchers who didn’t know anything, stand up and pointedly and with knowledge explain that they knew, what the intent of these programs really were and what it would do to their operations, must have been a frightening experience for them.

Nothing is worse than the realization that you have seriously underestimated your opponent and the obvious misconceptions you had about them.

In fact, if USDA is that confused about what took place at these “listening sessions” and the “breakout sessions” meant to steer those simple minded rural folk into thinking or believing that NAIS/Premises ID was a good idea, You Tube is loaded with videos documenting the public anger and outrage over this attempt to run them out of business.

The only “substantial support” the USDA can truthfully claim was from the hired security guards that stood between them and the people they feared most:  The farmers and ranchers they intend to put out of business on behalf of industrialized corporate agriculture, and international interests.

Just a side note:

The Pork Producers, Farm Bureau, and Dairy Industry via national organizations gave token support for the program; each of them listed as campaign donors to many of the politicians in the Ag Department.

Many of the larger producers most of whom belong to national organizations, speaking on behalf of members (who had no real idea of the impact this would have on their operations and many of whom are still in a state of shocked numbness,) claimed they needed NAIS to protect the security of their Industry.  Ironic how the dairy and pork folks have their hands out for cooperative agreement funds (bribes) and many have signed MOU’s (memoranda of understanding) with the USDA.  I wonder how these organizations will explain to their members how the government’s involvement in their industry was the cause of their financial problems to begin with…and they knew it.

USDA: You jackasses did NOT hear any substantial support for this ill advised plan.  What you did hear was the growing backlash against government takeover of agriculture.

Did I mention that Tom Vilsack never made an appearance?  Neither did Collin Peterson (D) MN, head of the Agriculture Committee in the US HOUSE who swore after the March AG meeting he would have NAIS mandatory by December 31 of this year.  Now you would have thought these two guys would have been out pitching their plan. Maybe they were busy those days; probably having lunch with those good old boys from Monsanto or some corporate lobbyist looking to make a buck……or spend one.

(C) copyright 2009  Marti Oakley

"
another look afterwards,,, https://ppjg.me/2009/10/31/notes-from-wisconsin-something-funny-happened-after-court-the-other-day/

 This whole thing was shoved down our throats...  and worse, illegally too.
Remember, your suppose to 'register your premise' ???

"When Pat raised the point of not having a premises on title, the Judge turned to the assistant district attorney Moria Ludvigson for an explanation of what Pat was saying, “he must mean that there isn’t a 911 address where the cattle are kept” Moria replied. 

Sorry folks, ignorance of the law is no excuse, in that the authorizing statute didn’t define premises the common definition applies.  Black’s Law indicates that a premises, doesn’t exist unless defined on title.

Is what in effect has occurred in this conviction is that law now rises from fiction?

Could the creation of a premises, without substantiation on the title deed invoke a taking without due process? 

Could it be the reason only a monetary forfeiture was given is that the court lacks authority for action in rem.(1) ?

Is the premises registration program something more than it appears?"

 Jackass government officials.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 8:46am
JC:

Your note points out an issue that most folks have never considered and that is that our government(s), (local, state and federal) have largely devolved into nothing more than giant protection rackets......not all that much different than what mobsters run. These governing bodies offer both protection and preference. And it is all for sale to the highest bidder.

What is true of most politicians is that most of them know very little about anything. So when they are trying to find information on any topic, they are mostly forced to rely upon what leaders of those industries tell them......and that comes through the filter of that industry's lobbyist.....who only tells them what the lobbyist wants them to hear. That information is then backed up with campaign donations to buy the politico's support and loyalty. Bottom line is your government is for sale to the highest bidder.

As an aside, one of the most astonishing bits of information I've ever heard presented in a public forum came from the mouth of a lobbyist. In reference to how they control politicians, she told us it was like house training dogs. Newly elected's were like puppies......they would make mistakes and you might roll up a newspaper and smack em on the nose. But old dogs.......they knew better. When one of them got out of line you put a choke chain on them so you could jerk them around and let them know who was boss. Was she kidding? One lobbyist I know personally writes the legislation he wants to see passed, then hands it to his bought and paid for pol, who introduces it for him. And those who vote for it get industry support.....meaning campaign money, PLUS all manner of industry support. Members are told who to vote for and are expected to do it.

Drain the swamp? Good luck with that. The swamp muck is deep and teeming with life, and all if it fighting to the death to maintain itself.

Try to think of some industry or activity in your daily life that isn't somehow controlled or taxed by some state or federal agency and you won't find any. Somebody somewhere has their thumb on the scale or pulling levers that control successes and failures and who it flows to. If you are a winner, you are all for it. If you are a loser, your only recourse is to organize with like minded losers and buy some influence in your favor.

By and large, right and wrong no longer matter, which is why there are so few true statesman left.

Trump occupies a unique space in history. A true creature of the swamp, a big part of his life and financial successes has come at a price.......he has had to buy a lot of political support to get where he is......so he knows how the game is played. The same Chucky Wucky Sucky that now has so much public scorn for the Trumpster has probably been on his knees sucking away for Trumps money in the past. Almost falling down funny to see the two of them in a room together. The body language hilarious.

While Trump does not have the political polish most professional pols have....his brash comments and demeanor fueling the haters......(you know who you are), and with his checkered past presenting a target on his back for those looking for a target to shoot at, what he does have is a statesman's vision of what ought to be. And with him personally being free of the control of the puppeteers than mostly run every other facet of government, we are getting to see that play out.

Reality TV for real.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 9:41am
Quite frankly, I am very upset with both parties right now (and have been for several years). It seems that the vast majority of our Senators and Representatives are more interested in their party's agenda, than they are for the good of the country. Before we throw too many stones at the Democrats, we have to remember that the Republicans practiced very similar obstruction during the Obama administration. Again, both parties seem more interested in their party agenda, than they do what is best for the country.

On the wall issue, for argument's sake, I will play the opposition on this one.

I live about 3 miles "as the crow flies" from the Canadian border. Smuggling is rampant in our area and has been for many years. During prohibition it was booze. After that it was cattle, cigarettes, etc. Now alien and drug smuggling are major problems. Heroin, cocaine, prescription drugs (oxycodone, fetanyl, etc.) and marijuana smuggling is totally out of control in our area.

Are we going to build a fence between the U.S.A. and Canada? A lot of the problem in our area is the St. Lawrence River which is the natural boundary, a lot like the Rio Grande in the south.

Someone pointed out, in effect,  that the cost is negligible. Earlier we had a massive tax cut that has significantly increased our national debt. Five billion here and five billion there adds up quickly. One of the basic principles of business is decreasing income means you need to decrease expenses to (at least) offset the decrease in income.

I think we have to forget about our support for or against an administration and ask our self several questions:
Is a a wall going to stop smuggling or move it to a different area (as has happened with existing sections of wall)? 
Is it worth increasing the national debt by another $5,000,000,000.00 (that is a lot of zeroes!!!)? 
Is this wall going to be a long term solution to the smuggling problem? 
Am I letting politics cloud my vision on this issue?

Just some food for thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:04am
WF, you're OK in your thinking in my book......just maybe go a few steps farther.  Just some questions:
1: Is the cost of building the wall a sunk expenditure, or is it an investment that will have offsets show up on the other side of the ledger?
 
2: If the wall is not a perfect complete solution, is it part of a solution?  If not unbreachable, will it at least raise the difficulty and slow things down significantly?
 
We don't build the wall, sit back and rest, "ahh....there we go!"  No, the wall will have to be augmented with technology and boots on the ground.  We'll have to vigilantly watch for tunnels, etc.  Watch the waterways and coast.  But man, it's gotta help!


Edited by Tbone95 - 14 Jan 2019 at 10:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:11am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

Quite frankly, I am very upset with both parties right now (and have been for several years). It seems that the vast majority of our Senators and Representatives are more interested in their party's agenda, than they are for the good of the country. Before we throw too many stones at the Democrats, we have to remember that the Republicans practiced very similar obstruction during the Obama administration. Again, both parties seem more interested in their party agenda, than they do what is best for the country.

On the wall issue, for argument's sake, I will play the opposition on this one.

I live about 3 miles "as the crow flies" from the Canadian border. Smuggling is rampant in our area and has been for many years. During prohibition it was booze. After that it was cattle, cigarettes, etc. Now alien and drug smuggling are major problems. Heroin, cocaine, prescription drugs (oxycodone, fetanyl, etc.) and marijuana smuggling is totally out of control in our area.

Are we going to build a fence between the U.S.A. and Canada? A lot of the problem in our area is the St. Lawrence River which is the natural boundary, a lot like the Rio Grande in the south.

Someone pointed out, in effect,  that the cost is negligible. Earlier we had a massive tax cut that has significantly increased our national debt. Five billion here and five billion there adds up quickly. One of the basic principles of business is decreasing income means you need to decrease expenses to (at least) offset the decrease in income.

I think we have to forget about our support for or against an administration and ask our self several questions:
Is a a wall going to stop smuggling or move it to a different area (as has happened with existing sections of wall)? 
Is it worth increasing the national debt by another $5,000,000,000.00 (that is a lot of zeroes!!!)? 
Is this wall going to be a long term solution to the smuggling problem? 
Am I letting politics cloud my vision on this issue?

Just some food for thought.



you make some good points WF. I too am frustrated with both parties! I am disgusted with the GOP, not so much because they practiced similar obstruction during the Obama administration, but rather because they didn't enough! Most of what Obama was doing was not good for the US.
I am also disgusted with the GOP because they are obstructing President Trump far too often. Sure, on a few occasions, they are right, he is wrong.....but not too often.


I have no doubt that the northern border is leaking also, and should be addressed, but, I don't know that it is to the magnitude that the southern border is. Still, we should be addressing it at some time, too.


Concerning your comments to the tax cuts, you are correct, up to a point. Cutting taxes did not increase the debt, but, may have been unwise in that it would have limited our ability to pay down the existing debt......if cutting taxes did not spur economic growth, thereby increasing tax revenue. There is a sweet spot where increasing taxes does not generate increased revenue, and decreasing taxes does not realize increasing revenue. the trick is finding that spot.


and finally, your five questions to be asked are good ones. One more should be,
'how much is national security worth'

building a wall may move the smuggling to another area.....if so, then you plug it, too.


I cant see how a physical barrier would not be a significant deterrent to smuggling and illegal entry. and cost wise, we shouldn't simply look at the $5B price tag, but compare that to the cost of not taking action.


And yes, we ALL should be constantly be asking ourselves if our thoughts are being clouded by mere politics....that is a very good point! I suspect most, if not all fall to that, from time to time.
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote modirt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 10:40am
I would again remind all parties that border walls, etc. would not be needed if the country eliminated all the incentives driving all this. An "economic wall" that makes it impossible to survive in the US without legal permission would end all the illegals coming here in the first place. The culprits in this being the ones creating and offering the incentives.....and these culprits exist on both sides of the isle.

Same with drugs. The consequences for getting into that trade are not bad enough to discourage it. Worse, a lot of states are going the other way. They see drug addition as a good thing now that they are poised to take advantage of it through taxes. In places like CA, they are getting desperate to find the money needed for all the free stuff they are using to buy votes with. Santa Claus is now a drug dealer.

What is puzzling to me is why the medial and politicians lament the loss when a celebrity goes down via an overdose. Drug use being such an important part of the culture. A tragedy? Really? What else did they expect was going to happen?

If they were true to the cause, shouldn't they celebrate when a drug user goes down?

In all this.....we reap what we sow.  In  the case of drugs, that would be the "grim reaper".






Edited by modirt - 14 Jan 2019 at 10:43am
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