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LouSWPA 
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 Topic: trailer question
Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 9:50pm |
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I'm looking for a small lightweight utility trailer to pull with my wife's KIA. 1000-1200 pound gross.
the ones I have found state a safety limit of 45 mph.
What limits the max speed of a trailer? tires? Since I planed to use this on the interstate 45 isn't practical.
Northen Tool has a nice aluminum one that would work real well, but 45 MPH limit
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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john(MI)
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Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:06pm |
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Maybe cause they're are prone to roll over? Also probably have to use the smaller size receiver hitch. I also would recommend one with at least 14" tires. Less time spent greasing bearings. Although most anymore should come with bearing buddies.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:27pm |
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Maybe, but good grief, I have seen Hogs going down the interstate pulling one of those little trailers behind and they would be doing 65-70. Seems to me if a motorcycle can do it a 5000 pound car can do it
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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shameless dude
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 3:43am |
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there is also posted speed lomits on roads Lou...how many times have you exceeded those? (poke,poke)
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 5:43am |
tires AND bearings. A bearing good for the 45mph max, probably melts down going down the highway at 75 ! What's the KIA 'trailer pull limit' ? Get a '4by8' trailer with 14s on it. Wife's 99 CR-V will easily pull my 5by8 with 15s on it all day long, filled with furniture and 'yard sale' treasures. axle should be located 60% from the front of the trailer BOX, not tongue. Also longer tongue = better hauling.
Add E-brakes for better stopping, lotta idiot drivers out there today !
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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desertjoe
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 6:05am |
Hey Jay,,,does the 60% apply to all trailers?? Reason is,,I see livestock trailers with the dual axles WAYYyyyyyy back there like almost at the rear door,,,
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Tbone95
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 7:15am |
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Joe, on bumper pull trailers, or gooseneck? Jay's rule seems "rule of thumb"-ish, depends on how long the tongue actually is, as the hitch is the support point.
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Dave H
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 8:13am |
Probably a CYA thing with the legal beagles. I would check and see what the sidewall says on the tire.
As a passing thought, aren't the U Haul trailers placarded at 45MPH limit? 
Edited by Dave H - 17 Jun 2019 at 10:58am
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 8:20am |
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DanWi
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 9:54pm |
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The guys heading north in winter with 2 sleds on a snowmobile trailer exceed 45. Have to look into getting a snowmobile trailer.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 3:12pm |
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Check Lowe's around here they sell trailers
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Dave in PA
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Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 4:14pm |
Lou, my son got a trailer about 2 years ago from tsc. I think it is the 4x7 open mesh one. He did put plywood on the bed. He hauls his dirt bike on it to camp in Clarion, at about 80 mph, on 79/80, not saying that anyone should do that!!! Not sure of the weight limit, I can look and try to find out! I do think that it has the 12" tires?? He has had no issue, with the trailer, nor the cops so far! LOL P.S. I was going to camp as well over the Memorial Day week-end, and I was set at 75 mph, on a posted 70 speed limit. He shoot past me like I was PARKED!! No problem with the trailer.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 4:27pm |
60% rule is for single axle trailers, length of tongue is NOT a factor, though longer tongue makes it easier to backup. With tandem axles, the 'equalizer'( Y shaped piece) that springs are attached to be at the 50% point of the trailer 'body', again tongue length doesn't matter. I make at least 1 or 2 single axle trailers every year, always use 60% rule, they always pull great. My '5by8' is really 100" long,made from 2" tubing. side rails 96"+2" front cross member and 2" rear cross member. 60% of 100" is 60" a nice easy number I can remember after 25 years of making trailers.
re: the 'link'... OK WHO has 300# of tools in their toolbox on a trailer ?? Yeesh.. I ain't got that many binders,chains and 'must have' tools for THREE trailers !
Jay
Edited by jaybmiller - 19 Jun 2019 at 4:34pm
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 9:27pm |
 Dave in PA wrote:
Lou, my son got a trailer about 2 years ago from tsc. I think it is the 4x7 open mesh one. He did put plywood on the bed. He hauls his dirt bike on it to camp in Clarion, at about 80 mph, on 79/80, not saying that anyone should do that!!! Not sure of the weight limit, I can look and try to find out! I do think that it has the 12" tires?? He has had no issue, with the trailer, nor the cops so far! LOL P.S. I was going to camp as well over the Memorial Day week-end, and I was set at 75 mph, on a posted 70 speed limit. He shoot past me like I was PARKED!! No problem with the trailer. |
well, I am/was interested in one of those bolt together kit trailers for one reason. for big stuff, I take the PU and 10k trailer, or just PU, but for smaller stuff it would be a lot cheaper to take wife's KIA SUV. But I didn't like the idea of pulling a trailer bouncing my teeth loose for hundreds of miles empty. So, I was thinking, knock the trailer down, put it in the back, and reassemble upon arrival and loading new treasures up. Right now I have a D17 motor in Wis to retrieve.
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:01am |
Lou, it'll takes a LONG time to assemble one of those 'folding, 4by7' trailers from HF and others..... neighbour found that out....though with 2 people and enough Metric sockets/2 drivers it'd speed things up ! Friend bought one ,used..yard sale in FL and hauled it LOADED with furniture . Made it no problem, then sold the trailer. No more need for it, he had 2.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:30am |
jaybmiller wrote:
Lou, it'll takes a LONG time to assemble one of those 'folding, 4by7' trailers from HF and others..... neighbour found that out....though with 2 people and enough Metric sockets/2 drivers it'd speed things up ! Friend bought one ,used..yard sale in FL and hauled it LOADED with furniture . Made it no problem, then sold the trailer. No more need for it, he had 2.
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ya' Jay, I know, I've heard anything from 4-8 hrs. I have accounted for that. But those times were 'first assembly, out of the box'. I figured I could get that down considerably by assembling it at home, and marking all the pieces with marker or paint, A-A, B-B, etc. Load it into the car sequentially, and use cordless drivers and impact wrench. and, it wouldn't need to be completely disassembled. I suspect I could get that down to an hour or less
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29441
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:34am |
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Really prefer a Good trailer, built by a good welder with a heavier than required axle and heavier metal thickness than necessary. I do not care for the bearing cooking 12" wheels or the tiny tires that get so hot they steam in the rain and without brakes that really set up a tow vehicle for success in a panic.
Last single axle I built was 6x9 floor area, 3500# axle, 15" rubber with a drop ramp. Brother In Law still has it at over twenty years old and still looks as good as when I built it, still seemingly invisible to the tow vehicle, have to check the mirrors to be sure is still attached as no bumping or banging or tugging. It does have brakes.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:59am |
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Dave, the only reason I have some reservations concerning the bearings is that they are, no doubt, cheap Chinese crap. If they are a good quality bearing and well greased and used within their rated load range I wouldn't even think twice about it, I'd just 'do it'. and yes, brakes are nice, I have pondered that one too. I have a lot of 'trailer time' w/o brakes, enough to realize their value. And, I have learned something, just because I, or someone else did something and 'got away with it' doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea.
all that said, the quality of the bearings is my biggest concern, and will probably the reason I do or do not proceed with this project. Beyond the bearings I am convinced that these little trailers, with 12" wheels can be towed at reasonable highway speeds, w/o brakes, if not overloaded.
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Dave H
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:42am |
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Lou, if the bearings got you nervous, just get the trailer and put the bearings of your choice in it.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 8:26am |
Dave H wrote:
Lou, if the bearings got you nervous, just get the trailer and put the bearings of your choice in it.
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I'm ahead of you on that. Thanks
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I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Tbone95
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 8:33am |
jaybmiller wrote:
60% rule is for single axle trailers, length of tongue is NOT a factor, though longer tongue makes it easier to backup. With tandem axles, the 'equalizer'( Y shaped piece) that springs are attached to be at the 50% point of the trailer 'body', again tongue length doesn't matter. I make at least 1 or 2 single axle trailers every year, always use 60% rule, they always pull great. My '5by8' is really 100" long,made from 2" tubing. side rails 96"+2" front cross member and 2" rear cross member. 60% of 100" is 60" a nice easy number I can remember after 25 years of making trailers.
re: the 'link'... OK WHO has 300# of tools in their toolbox on a trailer ?? Yeesh.. I ain't got that many binders,chains and 'must have' tools for THREE trailers !
Jay
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If it’s not a factor, then why is every dimension in Dave’s link referenced from there? It both supports the weight and is the pivot point as part of the stability of the towing. So you’re basically dismissing that whole article.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 7:43am |
I'll lay odds an 'engineer' wrote the article, and from the other side of the pond ( lorry is a dead giveaway). I'm not dising the article, just that if you read other articles and websites the 60% rule work 100% of the time. I read about the 60% rule 20-25 years ago, figure 2 per year, that's +-50 trailers I've made and NEVER has anyone complained about handling issues. Most comment how 'nice it pulls' down the road, empty or full.
As for tongue length, everyone who has backed up a 'short' tongue trailer KNOWS it's 'fun', empty or fully loaded. The longer tongue is easier. Every dump truck 'pup' trailer has a very long tongue. If they could get away using less steel they would,but they can't. Tongue weight should be 10-15% of the load weight but of course never exceed the hitch's limit.They sell weigh scales to show you the weight,though if you haul often you know when it's good.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Tbone95
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Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 8:22am |
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If you look at what I said, I never really doubted your 60% rule would work fine probably 99% + of the time. All I said was it sounded "rule of thumb", and it is. And yeah, no kidding, the article was written by an across the pond engineer, obviously as you said. And all his mumbo jumbo, ended up at what, 63%? So......big deal right? Right. It's just odd.....Somebody as anal about things as you usually are, makes a blanket statement that tongue length has NOTHING to do with it when it obviously HAS to both from the leverage of the weight and the length to the pivot point. Despite logical and mathematical proof otherwise, you're right just because you read it a long time ago. Big deal.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 10:35am |
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Around here,long tongues on pup trailers are to get the axle distance for bridge laws
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 4:33pm |
Tbone, I think Jay ment the LENGTH of the tongue has nothing to do with the placement of the ALXE on the trailer... The "NORMAL" rule of thumb is 60% and that works 99% of the time... The tongue LENGTH does effect how it pulls, what WEIGHT is transferred to the hitch, and how easy the trailer is to backup......... but is not relevant to the 60% that jay was talking about........ take any trailer and mount the axle at 60% of the BED length.. then you can add a 4 -5 -6 ft tongue.. makes NO DIFFERENCE... and TONGUE WEIGHT is adjustable by placement of the load on the trailer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 7:58pm |
Thanks Steve, that's what I meant to say... tongue length has nothing to do with where the axle goes As for proper loading, you need to adjust the load to get the 10-15% weight onto the tongue. get it wrong and 'tail wagging the dog' syndrome, there was a GREAT picture of that 1-2 months ago here( tractor stayed ON the trailer !)
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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ac fleet
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Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 9:47am |
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Signs here on interstate's state cars towing trailers restricted to truck speeds.----Well the trucks here run 70 to 90+, so IF you want to chance draggin a "micro" trailer that fast, go for it! 45 - 55 is plenty--- I certainly would not attempt it!!---I like living too much!
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 25 Jun 2019 at 11:03pm |
Trailer tires have ratings slightly different from automobile or light truck tires.
Speed of a tire determines two things- first is how much CENTRIFUGAL FORCE appears on the tire carcass, and second, is how much HEAT the tire will generate.
Tires are HEAT sensitive, and trailer tires have thicker sidewalls and treads, generally more plies. They calculate the LOAD RANGE based on how well the tire sheds heat... but as a standard, the 'universal speed' which Load Range for a tire's thermal excursion limits are spec'd...
because a tire that's spinning fast, is re-shaped by centrifugal force... and therefore, the contact pattern, and thermal concentration... are affected by speed.
Let's say your trailer is EMPTY... the only thing that will cause that tire any grief, is if you go so fast that it comes unglued from sheer centrifugal force. I'll assure you that an unladed 4.80-12 will NOT have any problems at 75mph... but if you expect to get it's full 760lb capacity, you will NOT want to run it that fast.
That being said, there ARE tires that are rated higher speed, but typically you'll find them indicated on sidewall for 65mph.
Oh... and mind the tire pressure...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Stan IL&TN
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Posted: 26 Jun 2019 at 4:28pm |
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I have a Triton aluminum deck over dual snow mobile trailer and it has maybe 10" high tires on it but they are 8" wide. No problems going down the interstate at 75mph. It has bearing buddies in it.
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