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Tractor Brakes:
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
Points: 2261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tractor Brakes:
    Posted: 9 hours 34 minutes ago at 5:57am
My White tractor has service brakes which work well but when you are almost stopped but not quite, the brakes emit a sound and the tractor tends to shake just a bit. I have no books myself other than the owners manual but the single source I've been able to locate shows these service brakes to be "wet". However, drilling down further these service brakes seem to be like dozer steering clutches requiring many friction, and many steel, or separator discs? There are six friction discs, and four steel, or separator discs per side. Is this a common setup? I've not seen it in the past on tractors myself. I have checked the oil in both sides and it is full to the threads of the monitoring ports so they are lubricated.  
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
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Points: 2261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 28 minutes ago at 6:03am
Here is a photo. Reference #7 is the friction discs, reference #8 is the steel, or separator discs. Set up much like an automatic transmission but manually applied.
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JoeM(GA) View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Cumming,GA
Points: 4761 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeM(GA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 27 minutes ago at 6:04am
very common these days, Ford started using it on the 4000 and larger in 1965, most others followed right behind them. They are a very robust braking system. I know my Ford backhoe is kinda picky about its hydraulic fluid, they tend to chatter if cheap oil is used. I don’t know how oil your machine is, but it may be coming up on brake time, they last a long time, but not forever
Allis Express North Georgia
41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's,
Ford 345C TLB
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
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Points: 2261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 5 minutes ago at 6:26am
Originally posted by JoeM(GA) JoeM(GA) wrote:

very common these days, Ford started using it on the 4000 and larger in 1965, most others followed right behind them. They are a very robust braking system. I know my Ford backhoe is kinda picky about its hydraulic fluid, they tend to chatter if cheap oil is used. I don’t know how oil your machine is, but it may be coming up on brake time, they last a long time, but not forever

Thanks kindly. I believe the tractor was built in 1984 but could be 1983. "Chatter" is a good word to use. Under it yesterday afternoon for the first time it appears quite a job to remove the housings these are installed within. I've been compiling a parts list and will run into the dealership I help out this morning as they are a AGCO dealer. Planning to keep this one so well worth a brake job if needed.

Thanks again, 
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
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Points: 2261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 45 minutes ago at 11:46am
Talked to the original owner of my tractor, second owner, and myself, (I do that far too often) and all the fluids were changed just prior to my purchase when the tractor was traded in on a new New Holland with a cab. All fluids came from Farm & Fleet which is a local retail farm supply store.

Following up on this I called the implement dealer I help out and they have the needed friction modifier that needs to be in the oil if not using the AMBRA branded oil New Holland specifies. The brakes friction material appears to be a composite of sintered bronze and this is very common to happen in older limited slip differentials if a friction modifier is not incorporated. Original owner rarely ever used the brakes as the tractor was used in a specified task and was not subjected to a lot of need for brake application. Second owner never did anything with the brakes at all so my assumption is they are original to the tractor. Implement dealer has the additive on the shelf so I need to ascertain quantity required and make purchase. Think I have found the correct manual from an online source but I really need a service manual for the file. 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3484 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 29 minutes ago at 12:02pm
It sounds like I made this up, but, we had issues with fork lifts that used brake system like this and chatter was a good description (Ford). We called Allis construction service and an engineer told me " a few years ago this issue evolved, we traced the issue as to the elimination of sperm whale organic oil as an ingredient in the oil. Drain the oil, go get some castor oil and pour a quart of it in with new oil." (I told him that he expected me to tell the customer his brakes chattering due to the fact we can't hunt sperm whales ? -get real) Son of a gun - fixed all the issues.   Massey Ferguson sells or did sell "Anti Chatter" additive!  Some said it didn't work but it did only if one changes the oil. Worked on 6140 AC's as well - but if water contaminated oil was left in too long it swelled the brakes and we had to turn down the 'floater' plates, then reused all the old components - with new oil and anti- chatter fluid.  
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
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Points: 2261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 18 minutes ago at 12:13pm
The sperm whale oil thing has been around since the 1970's in the automotive world. Probably true as the term "Save the Whales" came about then.

The product I referenced is an AGCO product. I've never heard of adding castor oil myself.
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 85845 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 37 minutes ago at 12:54pm
sounds like the same problem in pickup trucks with LS units that dont have any Friction Modifier in the oil... I always bought a 7 oz tube at Auto Zone and added to the gear lube when i did a truck rear axle ( with a limit slip unit)..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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