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Joe Graunke 
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 Topic: How many here own AGCO Stock
Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:45pm |
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Just wondering how many here have stock in AGCO. I think the Stock holders need to fire the board of AGCO and get new people in there to save the company.
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Hudsonator
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:51pm |
I saw Richenhagen on Fox Business today. His explanation for the expanding ag market in Brazil was that they were more "Socialistic" than the EU and USA.
The Fox Business folk were foaming at the mouth over AGCO, until he said that.
Huh?
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There isn't much a WC can't do.
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Dale-OH
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:52pm |
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Save the Company? Please explain... AGCO as a company seems to be very strong to me
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Joe Graunke
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 3:56pm |
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To save the Orange line
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Bill Long
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 4:41pm |
Joe, I have some to keep in touch. However, if we add all ours together I feel we would have trouble making an impact.
IN any event if I can be of assistance don't hesitate to let me know.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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bigallis1
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 4:50pm |
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Owned some for the last 10 years. Made money with it.
Sold all of it back in December. One of the reasons being the way the company is being run.
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 5:26pm |
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He keeps saying people will buy more equipment to feed more people but he also says there isn't enough land. Don't you need to work more land to get more equipment?
I was thinking of buying AGCO stock to have a voice but I've already wasted too much money on them and they don't listen to me anyway. Plus, there going down. I can't see them succeeding with yes higher technology but also higher prices. I don't think the farmer is going to go for all the bells in whistles for a long time.
In the video they showed MF, Challenger and Fendt. On the Fendt they had it mowing with a Kuhn mower. What's up with that? Why not be doing it with a Hesston?
Edited by Byron WC in SW Wi - 09 Feb 2010 at 5:26pm
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 5:35pm |
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this whole orange thing reminds me of back in around mid 80's, Ford was going to introduce a new Mustang, Japanese built, later came here as the probe. Mustang enthusiasts wrote in and voiced their opinions and got Ford to change their mind. Needless to say, the mustang has since regained top seller several times, and actually started the whole retro car movement! not to mention the 90's craze for 5.0 mustangs! Ford's 302 became the "small-block chevy" of the 90's!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Joe/NC
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 6:29pm |
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We had the Southern Farm Show in Raleigh last week.
Gregory Poole is our local CAT dealer and AGCO Dealer had a display there. (Mainly for the Challenger Line) I talked to one of their employees about AGCO closing down. He knew nothing about it. Wonder when all the AGCO re employees such as that fellow will find out he may be unemployeed?
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PeteMN
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 7:51pm |
Agco as a company may do quite well in S.A., Africa, and other developing ag regions.
Its sad that they are taking the course that they are on for N.A.. But you have to remember that the history they are using only goes back to the Deutz-Allis days, so its not surprising they don't understand the American market, and with German leadership they aren't going to start worrying about it any time soon.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 09 Feb 2010 at 9:59pm |
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I do, and I plan to vote against everything on the ballot that AGCO is for. I have more power with the stock then by selling out. Next year I'm going to demand an accountablity report of why the orange line was eliminated. When they make incompetent decisions like this one, the shareholders need to strike back. Going orange is going great!
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John (C-IL)
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Posted: 10 Feb 2010 at 6:10am |
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Yep, I think Allis Chalmers was there in the 50's and 60's. The idea that they could sell a whole lot of smaller tractors than larger ones was one of the mind sets that led to their problems 50 years ago. Seems like AGCO is going down the same path, 10,000 socialist farmers will buy cheap 35HP tractors. But who will buy the 1000 225HP tractors that they would make the same amount of money on?
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Ron(WA)
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Posted: 10 Feb 2010 at 12:28pm |
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Rule number one: never, never buy stock based on emotion. It's a business, not a close relative.
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Tyler Williams
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Posted: 11 Feb 2010 at 9:52pm |
I have to disagree with some of you, I believe what Agco is doing is very smart. They have too many lines as it is and weeding them out is the best option they have. Maybe picking the orange tractor isnt the first one I would get rid of due to the hertitage but its what they have chosen.
I think the smartest move that they could do at this point is take the Fendt tractor and paint it red and yellow. Then make some of the standard features optional. Make the TMS, teachin, cab suspension, front axle suspension, rear 3PT hitch, things like this optional to reduce the price of the tractor a little so the small guys can afford it (not that it is ridiculous to purchase, people need to get this out of there heads. Especially after considering the additional standard items and the service package that comes with it) A couple smaller versions would be a good idea as well. They have the 130 - 360 hp range covered very well. Now if they would introduce the 200, 300, and let us sell the 400's again we would have a full line. If this ever happens then you all need to start buying stocks because I promise they would then sell WAY more red and yellow tractors.
As long as they dont pull Fendt from North America I dont care what they do.
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Tyler Williams
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Posted: 11 Feb 2010 at 9:58pm |
 Joe/NC wrote:
We had the Southern Farm Show in Raleigh last week.
Gregory Poole is our local CAT dealer and AGCO Dealer had a display there. (Mainly for the Challenger Line) I talked to one of their employees about AGCO closing down. He knew nothing about it. Wonder when all the AGCO re employees such as that fellow will find out he may be unemployeed?
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This is something that is very sad. We have been selling Agco tractors since the start and have built relationships with many of top US dealers. Some of them are very unsure of what is going to happen. Some Im sure will have the option to become Massey or Challenger dealers, but what about the ones who already have these dealers in their home towns?
As for the employee that knew nothing about this that is the dealers fault for not letting them know. We all received letters just a little while ago stating the orange tractor disappearing.
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Tyler Williams
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Posted: 11 Feb 2010 at 10:11pm |
Byron WC in SW Wi wrote:
He keeps saying people will buy more equipment to feed more people but he also says there isn't enough land. Don't you need to work more land to get more equipment?
I was thinking of buying AGCO stock to have a voice but I've already wasted too much money on them and they don't listen to me anyway. Plus, there going down. I can't see them succeeding with yes higher technology but also higher prices. I don't think the farmer is going to go for all the bells in whistles for a long time.
In the video they showed MF, Challenger and Fendt. On the Fendt they had it mowing with a Kuhn mower. What's up with that? Why not be doing it with a Hesston?
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Hesston is no longer either, its now Agco or Massey and not the Prairie Autumn color either, they are now Massey red.
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JohnCO
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Posted: 11 Feb 2010 at 11:39pm |
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The first Hesston balers, and other machinery was painted red and white until the mid '80's. I looked at a beeline baler when they first came out and it was red but when I bought mine, it was painted, I believe, Autumn Prime.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 9:19am |
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I was thinking about the video of Martin the other day. He said they are hugely successful in South America because of their "peoples tractor" which is a $10,000 inexpensive tractor. Then he says, and has said, that in North America he wants to win market share not on price but on technology. Anybody see anything really idiotic about that? I think AGCO has a really good product in the larger tractors but so does Deere, CNH and Deutz. And, even in the things that AGCO may lead in it won't take long for the others to catch up. So why is the North American farmer going to pay as much for an AGCO as for a Deere? Also, we're coming out of a great recession. If you need a new tractor or car or anything are you going to go for the one with all the bells and whistles or are you going to get one that just gets the job done for less money?
AGCO's parallelism to other industry failures is ironic and sometimes stunning.
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Dale-OH
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 9:43am |
The customers that I am selling large tractors to want all the bells and whistles, CVT, Cab Suspension, Front Duals, Automatic Climate Control, Engine Contol Systems, Headland Management, and Some even front axle suspension. I do not blame them, if you are going to be spending $150-250,000 you will spec what you want.
Now as far as the "Peoples Tractor" in SA, the majority of the owners of those tractors are not the operators, so why would they buy higher priced tractors?
I dont want to aggrevate or start something just giving my point of view as a dealer.
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Russ-neia
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 2:00pm |
I own some stock, mostly to "stay in touch" as Bill says.
I got back from Brazil on Wednesday. Lots of Valtra tractors, a fair amount of Massey, Ford/New Holland has a good presence and even saw two Olivers. Most all the combines I saw were JD or a JD clone. Spent most of my time in the state of Tocantis and the multi-location JD dealer there that has the entire state claims he already has 75% of the combine market and 50% of the tractor market (JD has only been in Brazil officially since 1998 - 12 years). I think he was exaggerating, but he had a lot of shiny iron on his lot with "sold" signs in the windows.
Never saw a single Fendt, nor any Cat (Challenger) ag tractors. Still a lot of Fiat-Allis and New Holland construction equipment in use.
Looked to me like AGCO has a lot of legacy equipment in Brazil, like they do in NA, but I didn't see much effort at retaining it.
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The innovators offer what others will imitate.
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Tyler Williams
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Posted: 12 Feb 2010 at 6:40pm |
Dale-OH wrote:
The customers that I am selling large tractors to want all the bells and whistles, CVT, Cab Suspension, Front Duals, Automatic Climate Control, Engine Contol Systems, Headland Management, and Some even front axle suspension. I do not blame them, if you are going to be spending $150-250,000 you will spec what you want.
Now as far as the "Peoples Tractor" in SA, the majority of the owners of those tractors are not the operators, so why would they buy higher priced tractors?
I dont want to aggrevate or start something just giving my point of view as a dealer. |
I agree with this comment 100% people want the bells and whistles. I see it here day to day.
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www.pentagonfarm.com
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 9:34am |
Tyler Williams wrote:
I have to disagree with some of you, I believe what Agco is doing is very smart. They have too many lines as it is and weeding them out is the best option they have. Maybe picking the orange tractor isnt the first one I would get rid of due to the hertitage but its what they have chosen. |
I agree but why not get rid of Challenger and Massey too and just make an AGCO brand. You could have AGCO/MF, AGCO/Challenger, AGCO, AGCO/White, AGCO/Oliver whatever you want. Their all identical tractors just paint them their heritage colors and slap a sticker on the side. You go from three brands to one and you keep all the heritage people happy. It sounds a little far fetched but they do THE SAME THING with Valtra. Today Valtra offers eight colors: orange, silver, yellow, red and metallic red, metallic green, metallic blue and black. So they cover AC, White, Challenger & MM, Massey, Cockshutt and Oliver. Plus they have blue and black! So tell me what their saving by getting rid of the AGCO brand?
Tyler Williams wrote:
I think the smartest move that they could do at this point is take the Fendt tractor and paint it red and yellow. Then make some of the standard features optional. |
Why wouldn't AGCO do that? I mean right now their larger tractors have the Fendt rear end and Transmission. Their putting a different engine in them, (SISU that they own), and painting them different colors. Why go through all that trouble for other brands when you already have a solid Fendt brand? Maybe their cheapening it up for a mid grade tractor?
Tyler Williams wrote:
As long as they dont pull Fendt from North America I dont care what they do. |
I think Fendt will survive longer than AGCO if AGCO doesn't kill them. They might as they integrate more Fendt technology in to the other lines the differences will become subtle. So the added expense of those lines won't make sense. But, it's hard to tell. AGCO is thinking like a European company and I don't understand them.
What AGCO is doing is idiotic. They are shooting the farmers who built their company in the back. A simple plan of a single AGCO brand with different colors and different stickers will give the customers what they want instead of telling them what they want. They will have a low end brand in Valtra, a mid grade brand in AGCO and a high end brand in Fendt. I don't know if offering Fendt in different colors will matter. I mean how many people order a Ferrari and have it any color other than red?
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Tyler Williams
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 2:38pm |
If I was to buy a Ferrari it would be yellow, LOL.
Anyway I agree with what you are saying and I also posted that maybe the orange tractor wouldnt have been my first choice to get rid of.
I also have the question in my head of why keep Valtra instead of the orange tractor? I guess the overall picture there maybe is more potential to sell these tractors in other countries? I personally know nothing about Valtra nor do I ever care to, there are maybe 2 dealers in Alberta and they sell a few but not that many.
As for getting rid of Massey there would be this same discussion with the people who love the red tractor. The Challenger tractor sells itself, its odd how it works but people think of Cat when they see it. We have a dealer we compete with here who recently took on the Challenger line and they say it is WAY easier to sell than the orange or red tractor. Its a mental thing I guess.
Going back to what I posted earlier about painting the Fendt the other colors. I think that it was a bad move to try and pull components from the Fendt and add them to the red and orange tractor. But this seems to be what Agco does best, they have done this since the beginning. It would have been much more economical for them to paint the Fendt red or orange and deoption it.
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 5:33pm |
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With the AGCO brand you wouldn't get rid of MF. It'd just be AGCO/MF instead of just MF on the side. Now their taking the MF and putting AGCO on the grill anyway.
Valtra is a cheaper tractor than Fendt or AGCO. Their spending millions building factories in China to build Valtras. I wouldn't buy one personally but I'm sure the Chinese will like them.
The only place Challenger doesn't sell well is in USA apparently. Apparently the Europeans buy it cause it says CAT to them. Also, the Challenger shop rates in Europe are the same as the shop rates for other brands. Here if you buy from a CAT dealer your shop rates are almost double what the ones are for other brands. Plus, most CAT dealers could care less about the tractors. One of the top Challenger sales people around here said you have to compete so hard on price just to get someone to look at a Challenger and then the dealer support just isn't there. AGCO is working so hard to "create" the Challenger brand. They give Challenger more support and products than they did AGCO. For some reason they've had it in for AGCO.
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michaelwis
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 6:03pm |
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Back to the original question .. if i did own a paper certificate of Agco stock ,i would moisten it and send it back to the chairman of the board ..lets say in a little different condition ...
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WD WD45 DIESEL D 14 D-15 SERIES 2 190XT TERRA TIGER ac allcrop 60 GLEANER F 6060 7040.and attachments for all Proud to be an active farmer
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ACD19farmboy
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 9:01pm |
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maby we can all pich in and buy the orange line from AGCO and all of us here make our own "NEW" Allis-Chalmers tractors.......we can start out by talking with some other tractor CO.s and buy tractors and put Allis-Chalmers on them??? and then maby slowly grow............hey dosent that sound familiar? that is exactly what AGCO did!!! and maby we can do it too!...that would be awesome!
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 9:17pm |
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Yeah, I've thought how hard could it be? You can buy engines and drive line systems pre made from CAT or a JCB affiliate. You could put old sheet metal styling on it from the 70's from Oliver and AC and I think you'd do all right. To keep the company from being perverted, like AGCO, you should form it as a Co-Op. Each person that buys a tractor has a set number of votes for a set number of years based on how much they spend. That would make the buyer the one with the voice.
Anyway, I've thought on it but it seems like a pretty huge task right now. And, to be honest I don't think most people on here care. To make a tractor like that with solid features and made in USA you'd have to price it accordingly. That would put you at or above Deere prices. Most wouldn't go for that even if they looked retro cool.
Another option is re-badging a tractor. A great option is Mahindra. Their a solid tractor, inexpensive and could be retro styled with new sheet metal, updated hydraulics, better paint and maybe spin out wheels and you'd have a good product for a reasonable price. You'd be right in line with other Indian made tractors from Deere and MF price wise and may even end up with a higher quality tractor. That might work with fairly little outlay of capital.
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Spud
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 10:02pm |
You would sully the AC name by applying it on a third world tractor. Better to have the name remembered as a quality product then bring it back on an inferior one.
Just my opinion.
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EPALLIS
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Posted: 17 Feb 2010 at 10:05pm |
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I'm recommending that all AGCO stockholders simply vote against any company backed proposal. Let the shareholder voice be heard. Anyway, going orange is going great!
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Byron WC in SW Wi
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Posted: 18 Feb 2010 at 5:26am |
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That's a good idea EP.
Spud it'd just be like the Fiat built AC 160. Right now CNH has tractors this size built in Czech, MF in Brazil and India and Deere in India. The way AC was going they weren't going to make their tractors this size anyway though they were probably going to go Japanese as far as they could. I wouldn't put AC or Oliver name on them anyway as that would be a copyright infringement I suppose.
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