This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Farm Equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


1958 D17 Diesel Head gasket

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
WD45Diesel57 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Location: Varna, Ont. Can
Points: 646
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD45Diesel57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1958 D17 Diesel Head gasket
    Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 4:03pm
i have a 1958 D17 diesel and this past summer i noticed that the engine was somehow putting pressure into the water jacket and the antifreeze had an oil film on it when drained. So the other night i pulled it in the shop and today i pulled the head off of it and found number 6 cylinder had blown through into one of the water passages. It has obviously has been doing it for quite sometime before i noticed any symtoms because the head around the valves is quite pitted, but the valves and power cell are not damaged. I was just wondering if these engines are prone to blowing head gaskets? The book says to torque the head to 105 ft pounds is it possible to torque 10 or 15 ft pounds more to hold it, i was planning on spraying the head gasket with the High-Heat gasket spray by permatex. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Denis in MI View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Norvell, MI
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis in MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 4:15pm
I have a D-17 diesel that had done this and caused the motor to sieze up.  I was told that the problem is the sleeves receed into the block and they no longer have the proper height to hold the head gasket compressed.  So I would check the sleeve standout and maybe go with the arp studs if you want to tighten it more.
 
Just my oppinion,
Denis
1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
Back to Top
Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2011 at 9:23pm
Your gasket blew into the water passage that's really close to the fire ring on the gasket in the very back didn't it? Did it always leak a little coolant out from the back between the head and block? I'm told that that little leak is a warning sign that you will be pulling the head off soon. Like Denis says, once you have the head off, check all of the sleeves in several places around each sleeve. What you want to see is .002 above the block. The original specs for the sleeves is flush + or - .002 according to the original blue prints for the 262. If your sleeves are below that .002 mark, it is unlikely you will have a head gasket hold long term. The original A-C shop manual states the head bolt torque is 120 ftlbs. Increasing the torque is not going to help if the head or block is warped, pitted or if you have sunken sleeves. I would recommend having the head surfaced for sure. If you're lucky, your sleeves are OK. When you go back together, inspect your bolts closely. To ensure maximum clamping force, go with ARP studs and nuts in place of the original bolts. If any of your bolts are pitted, don't reuse them. The ARP studs and nuts are actually cheaper than O.E. bolts from AGCO and are far superior too.
Check out ARP's web site. There is a link to a demo on bolt clamping force that was done by the guys on Horse Power TV. Pay close attention to using the proper assembly lube too. Proper assembly lube is key to getting the correct clamping force.


Edited by Brian Jasper co. Ia - 05 Feb 2011 at 9:25pm
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
Back to Top
WD45Diesel57 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Location: Varna, Ont. Can
Points: 646
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD45Diesel57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 12:01am
Yes it did blow out right by the fire ring. I replaced all the bolt the other year with Grade 8 bolts. Iam going to polish up the block and measure the sleeves but iam positive they are slightly above the block surface. I will keep you guys posted on what i find. Thanks your input and advice.
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 33921
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:32am
Put a straight edge to the tops of the sleeves and to the head... Heads will warp sometimes. Somebody made a comment some time ago where they had special fire rings made (out of copper?) and put in instead of the origional fire rings to compensate for the lack of proper standout.
Back to Top
Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:05pm
Someone a while back posted that the nominal torque for a grade 8 1/2" bolt was 77 ftlbs. I had considered new grade 8 bolts on my 262 also. I talked with Bill at Sandy Lake and after we considered the heat that the ordinary bolts would be exposed to, I decided ARP studs were the way to go. The bolts are still available from AGCO, they're $25 ea. ARP studs and nuts figure out to be about $9 ea.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
Back to Top
nowaktj View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Location: Elk River, MN
Points: 726
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nowaktj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 1:52pm

The 77 ft-lb spec is right out of Cat's Engineering Standards.  Even Cat's special high torque for these Grade 8 bolts is only 100 ft-lb.

D19D, D17D, WD, WC, Snobee, #83 Plow, SC Blade, 14' disk, 400 series planter, B , Terra Tiger, M Dozer w/Baker Blade, TL-12, 42S Grader, G
Back to Top
WD45Diesel57 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Location: Varna, Ont. Can
Points: 646
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD45Diesel57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 2:14pm
Where do you aquire ARP studs? I dont really want to pull the head off again. Its my mainly used tractor. Thanks for all your guys help.
Back to Top
MACK View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2011 at 3:02pm
Throw the new fire rings away that comes with gasket and make them out of neiled wire .010-.015 thicker than new head gasket. Torque the head down from center to outside 20 ft lb at a time until you are up to specks.
  Have done this on pulling tractor for years with 70 lb boost and have never blew a head gasket.  
 The reason the sleeves sink is because the fire rings are too soft and over time the sleeves move up and down causing them to sink. The reason the 262 gas didn't that is because the gas used a gasket and fire ring that was about 1/2 the thicknes of the diesel (.035 on gas .065 on Diesel.    MACK
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.066 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum