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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Jackson, WI
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 Topic: Pulling motor recommendations
Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:55pm |
The unstyled WC that I started tinkering on I was thinking of making a puller out of. The last two years I have used my 45 diesel in the antique classes. In 4500 lb. class, it does fair. If it is weighted up better on up to the 6000 lb. classes, it does much better. Still running stock 28" rims on it which we all know hurts compared to anyone running 38" tires. So my plan was to take this WC and build a puller out of it, but run it in the antique classes. So I don't want to get extremely crazy with the engine, but would like something that looks "stock" but is doing as much as I can in the stock rpms to compete with everyone else in what we all know aren't "stock" engines. I would like to still look normal, but at least give orange a better representation then I have been. Also, will probably be going to 38" tires on the back as well. Most of the antique classes around here are making everyone run in 1st gear all the time, but I know that 1st gear in a WC with 38" are going to speed things up so I need to make sure I have the power to handle them.
Since this unstyled already has a WD45 block in it, it doesn't match up to "stock" and I think it has WD internals in it based on my tinkering on Sunday. I do have a good WC block here, so everything would appear "good" from the outside, but what would you guys recommend to put together for the inside. WD45 crank, 4 1/8 pistons but which ones from what tractor, but what else? Don't want to make things obvious, but would like one stought running WC.
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1955 WD45 diesel 203322 was my dad's tractor, 1966 D15 23530, 1961 HD3 Crawler 1918, 1966 D17 IV 83495, 1937 WC 41255, 1962 D19 6221
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wi50
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:14pm |
Keep it simple and cheap for 1st gear and stock RPM you don't need much.
I just trimmed up some M&W WD overbore pistons in a 4.5 stroke engine to get 11.25 to 1 comp, a little head work and a decent cam, carb and manifold.
A offset grind and a Farmall H rod and an Allis piston, or a Massey Harris rod with an automotive piston and a 4.125 or +.060 over keep it simple and cheap also.
Edited by wi50 - 11 Jan 2011 at 8:18pm
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:20pm |
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MItch says you can offset grind the crank to the smaller IH con rods and get a little stroke out of it. If the other necessary changes wouldn't cost too much I think that might be fun to have. You might consider grinding the cam and the manifold and carb restictions and come up with a respectable puller.
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wi50
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:32pm |
I'm not sure how big the wrist pin end is in a buda rod, but to offset or bush it and run an Allis piston with a littel trimming may work out well, I'd have to do a little math to check and see, at least you could get to 4.8 or a tad more stroke.
The Farmall H and the Massey Harris 33 both use a 2.25 crankpin so you could only gain .100 stroke.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 9:02pm |
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A WD45 block in a WC is still considered stock as that is the factory replacement block ....it was all you could get in later years.
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Matt MN
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 9:09pm |
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I would use your wd45 block, 175 pistons and sleves, and have your camshaft ground to 175 specs.
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Unless your are the lead horse the scenery never changes!!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 10:03pm |
If you use the H rod you don't get any extra cubic inches . You only get 90 percent of the total removed when offset grinding to. If you use the c farmall rod 1.75 rod journal 7.250 long you pick up .5625 stroke for a total stroke of 5.0625. that size rod journal did break on me after four years of pulling but the crank had been welded and the offset ground to that journal size for a total of 5.75 stroke. A 4.125 bore 4.5 stroke at 12.1 compression with cam and head work and a moline g carb runs pretty darn well.
Edited by mlpankey - 11 Jan 2011 at 10:08pm
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Burgie
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 4:57am |
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Chuck, Go with a 5" stroke crank and 4 1/8 bore. You will have to do something with the clutch. I`ve got more motor than clutch.
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"Burgie"
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E7018
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 6:58am |
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I have a D17 engine that a rod started tightening up on so it would be a candidate for a pulling motor.
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wi50
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 10:03am |
 mlpankey wrote:
If you use the H rod you don't get any extra cubic inches . You only get 90 percent of the total removed when offset grinding to. If you use the c farmall rod 1.75 rod journal 7.250 long you pick up .5625 stroke for a total stroke of 5.0625. that size rod journal did break on me after four years of pulling but the crank had been welded and the offset ground to that journal size for a total of 5.75 stroke. A 4.125 bore 4.5 stroke at 12.1 compression with cam and head work and a moline g carb runs pretty darn well. |
You will be able to gain .100 stroke and that makes for a few more inches, those few of inches or stroke isn't worth much but it may help the numbers come out for a desired comp ratio. Allis crankpin is 2.375 and an H is 2.25, figure on giveing up .020 or a touch more to true up and clean up the underside.
Maybe my math is different or our crank grinders work different here but the crank's I've offset ground, I picked up some stroke
Edited by wi50 - 12 Jan 2011 at 10:05am
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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wi50
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 10:11am |
I checked some numbers, with a Buda rod from a D17 diesel or like engine, you can get to 4.8 stroke or a touch more. Add an overbore Allis piston set and you'll be right near 9 to 1 with WD 45 and D17 type pistons, or mluch higher with WD type. You would have to trim the pistons to keep the comp. in check.
You would have to put a bushing in the Buda rod to fit the wrist pin and cut a wrist pin clip grove in the piston. I've cut groves, makde a threaded mandril in the lathe to fit the pin bore. Threaded to tighten a nut against the pin boss closest to the chuck and the mandril is long enogh to hold half way through the far pin boss. I just cut the groves with a boreing bar. It's real simple, but takes a bit of time to get the mandril made and set each one up.
Everyone worries to much about bore and stroke and not enough about a head, manifold, cam and carb. A plain old 240 can be plenty if you get the rest of the engine right.
Edited by wi50 - 12 Jan 2011 at 10:13am
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 11:10am |
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Using Buda rods will get you 4.875" stroke.
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wi50
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 11:34am |
DR Allis,
What do you use for a deck height on these blocks, or how much variance do you see?
Reason I ask is I've got a low hour Gleaner E engine here that seams to be on the short side. I used some M&W pistons from a WD trimmed the tops, bowls and valve reliefs. Stock crank and rods. I measured the stroke, rod center to center, comp height of the pistons and the comp height of the block. The pistons came up out of the block and all the numbers add up for a 12.63 deck height. I've measured others to be 12.655.
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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mlpankey
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Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 1:14pm |
DrAllis wrote:
Using Buda rods will get you 4.875" stroke. |
maybe if you go with a undersized bearing . In order to pick up the .375 in stroke. .375 has to come off the bottom of the journal moving the journal centerline up away from the main journal centerline . The journal will not be round untill you take some from the top and sides this will move the centerline back down toward the main journal 10 percent of the total . If you make a miss cut then it gets to be more. I like precision. most shops say why bother telling them they are 10 less than they expected. If you expect 90 percent of the total gain then youre not surprised. The rod you use also has to be not as wide as the original rod gets tough to get thrust on a rod wider than the crank journal. But then again maybe some are not worried about the journal being round after some of the stroked cranks I have seen sold lately . Its really simple to see it if you think about the way you obtain stroke.
Edited by mlpankey - 12 Jan 2011 at 1:27pm
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