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Johnwilson_osf 
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Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Location: Mount Bethel PA
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 Topic: Wires like spaghetti
Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 8:03pm |
The starter on our Kenworth T300 stuck on this morning. We were only moving the truck into the barn, but when we shut the truck off, the starter was still running. I quickly disconnected the battery negative cables, and it shut off. Took the starter out, and the solenoid is bad, so I will be replacing that momentarily. The starter is a Delco 37MT model, that has a ground stud on the starter body.
When I took off the wires from the Solenoid positive terminal, and the starter body ground terminal, I marked them appropriately. Here is the question.
Is there anyway to know for certain that the wires are truly were they belong (ground vs hot)? The truck has had lots of weird electrical issues (mostly in the cab), ever since the starter was first replaced about 5 years ago. (I am wondering if the techs that replaced it put all the wires on the correct terminals.
Thank you, John
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Allis Express: Eastern PA on Rt 80
8050, 8010, 6080, 190, D14, DA 6035, AA 6690, 5650, Gleaner F2
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 8:18pm |
I'd have to see pictures of what you have and even better the wiring diagram for your truck. I can't see why the starter would have a ground wire. If it does, it's got to be big and fat to handle the 200-400 amps to spin the starter. Usually starters with internal solenoids will have a big stud( +12 battery) and a small stud or spade connector( low current, from 'start' position of ign switch.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 8:22pm |
is this your starter ?
if so top big stud goes to battery +12 btm big stud goes to ground, battery -ve
little stud ,upper right, goes to 'start' position of ignition switch or 'push to start'
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 8:49pm |
you might be able to trace a couple wires... should look somethink like this.. you may not have the thermostat connector
https://www.delcoremy.com/documents/starter-instruction-sheets/over-crank-protection-installation-42mt.aspx
Edited by steve(ill) - 20 Dec 2024 at 8:52pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Johnwilson_osf
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 9:58pm |
Jay, Yes, that is what the starter looks like. Steve, yes, similar diagram.
When I took the starter out, it had 3 wires on each post. The + at the solenoid had the Battery Pos cable, plus two smaller wires, and the ground post on the starter had a battery negative, and two smaller wires.
The ignition wire was on the small post on the solenoid, and then the other small post of the solenoid had a wire going to the large ground post on the starter body.
I don't have any pictures right now, but can get some tomorrow. The wires are extremely dirty, so it would take a little work to get colors of them. Plus, Kenworth doesn't have any wiring diagrams that are of any value. When I call for a diagram, they say that every truck might have a different wiring, so they can't tell me what it would be like under there.
Thank you John
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Allis Express: Eastern PA on Rt 80
8050, 8010, 6080, 190, D14, DA 6035, AA 6690, 5650, Gleaner F2
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 10:08pm |
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looking at the wire diagram... and your description... It sounds like everything is connected correctly... and you might have an EXTRA ground wire ... which is OK.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 Dec 2024 at 10:19pm |
When I took the starter out, it had 3 wires on each post. The + at the solenoid had the Battery Pos cable, plus two smaller wires,( yes, the yellow and purple with battery cable) and the ground post on the starter had a battery negative, and two smaller wires. ( yes, the GROUND cable and the red plus an extra --- if you dont have the thermostat switch, then the bLACK wire from the magnetic switch MIGHT be connected to the BIG GROUND terminal on the starter.)
The ignition wire was on the small post on the solenoid,( the green) and then the other small post of the solenoid had a wire going to the large ground post on the starter body. ( yes, the red)
Edited by steve(ill) - 20 Dec 2024 at 10:21pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 12:59am |
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Seen a few where that secondary solonoid is used in tandem with main solonoid on starter , positive shot off of voltage to starter to prevent overrun that destroys starter windings . Some reason the dependence of main solonoid to not stay engaged is overlooked .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 6:49am |
Love Steve's diagram ! The magnetic switches 'ground' stud goes to that 'themostat' in the starter then to ground. That way when the starter overheats,it opens the path and you HAVE to wait until the starter cools down before trying again.
The extra 2 wires on both +ve and -ve posts sound like someone at sometime added 'stuff' and this was an easy place to get 24/7 battery power. If you leave the 2 small wires off the +ve post of the starter, engine should still fire up fine. What won't work will be whatever extra 'stuff' the PO added. Maybe a backup camera system, extra lights, CB radio , ??? It'll be obvious when 'it' doesn't work anymore !!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Johnwilson_osf
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Location: Mount Bethel PA
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Posted: 25 Dec 2024 at 3:54pm |
Steve's Diagram did the trick. Once I saw that, I was able to pair the two hot wires to the two ground wires, so I know what belongs to what circuit now. I was just not used to any of my tractors having the extra ground stud on the starter.
THank you for all your help
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Allis Express: Eastern PA on Rt 80
8050, 8010, 6080, 190, D14, DA 6035, AA 6690, 5650, Gleaner F2
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