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CA Supplemental Hydraulic Pump Sizing |
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dfwallis
Orange Level Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 631 |
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Posted: 04 Nov 2024 at 3:12pm |
What would be a proper target GPM size for a supplemental hydraulic pump for a CA (given limited horsepower)? 10GPM? 15GPM? ? (10GPM ~ 11HP at 2000PSI per one online calculator that I don't really trust)
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1952 CA13092
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20523 |
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Depends on the diameter(s) of the cylinders you are going to use. Depends on the system pressures and how much you intend to lift. Depends on if the engine is going to run 2000 RPM most of the time you are activating the hydraulics or 1000 RPM. Depends on what YOU think the lifting speed should be. Whatever you'd do with a tractor that size and cylinders of 2 inch diameter max (1 1/2" might be more suited) 10 GPM will be lightning fast at full throttle. A 400 series loader has a 10-12 GPM front pump and it will lift the loader boom from the ground to full height in 3 seconds !!! and that's filling TWO boom cylinders. Personally, I'd want 5 GPM and no more at full throttle.
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dfwallis
Orange Level Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 631 |
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It will likely max out about 1200-1500 RPM. I intend to select a low-ish RPM pump and gear it accordingly. Probably no larger than 2-2.5 inch cylinders, ~2000PSI.
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1952 CA13092
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Stan R
Orange Level Access Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 960 |
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I'd suggest just direct coupling to the engine (crank shaft or belt) or pto and not deal with any gearbox (extra cost, more hp loss, bulkier system...).
Flow is somewhat proportional to the rpm. Which way are you planning on powering the pump. |
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dfwallis
Orange Level Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 631 |
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There is no good access point. I could go the common route of powering off the generator, but the generator rebuilder and I don't like that idea. Also blocking the manual crank port is a no-go. So, I'm leaning toward the belt pulley (new pulley), if I identify a good way to mount the pump. Yes I know this is still problematic in that it's not fully "live". I don't really find that to be a major problem as long as the hand clutch is working correctly. Not planning on any separate gearbox. You can get a pump rated for most any reasonable RPM you want. I had planned to use a diverter to divert the native pump to a new control platform, but given the difficulties I've had so far getting it to work correctly, I'm leary of that approach, plus a bit more flow capacity would be good. But nothing's set in stone yet. I'm still (re-)theorizing.
Edited by dfwallis - 05 Nov 2024 at 10:56am |
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1952 CA13092
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 783 |
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A couple of years ago my friend bought a (much too large) 3-point hitch backhoe for his little Ferguson tractor; he then purchased a PTO driven pump that was also much too large, it was in the ~17 gpm range or thereabouts (I am too lazy to go look it up for the exact specs). When he tried to use the backhoe it simply killed the engine on the tractor so he asked me to take a look at it. When he told me how big the pump was I was pretty confident where the problem was. He wound up getting a pump that was just under half the size (again I am too lazy to look it up) and that fixed the problem other than the backhoe is still too big for that little Fergie; it needs a WD45 at minimum.
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 783 |
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My late Father-in-law mounted a pump directly-driven on the belt pulley drive of his WD. I see no reason why this couldn't be done on a CA as well. He used a Lovejoy coupler and welded up the pump mount, I think he had to get a small amount of machine shop work done.
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WD45
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: STAYNER,ONTARIO Points: 952 |
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Run the pump off the crankshaft one has live hyd's plus frees the pto up.
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Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,U,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 8070 fwd, 716H and 1920H
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81240 |
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another option to have LIVE and not block off the crank is to run a drive shaft out the front of the crank mounted in a couple bearings... mount the pump below that shaft and chain drive them together.. Leave access to the DRIVE SHAFT to manually rotate the engine if needed.
only problem with using the PTO and hand clutch is your hands are already busy running the steering wheel and bucket levers.
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 Nov 2024 at 4:04pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dfwallis
Orange Level Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 631 |
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Anything I do will not mod the tractor itself, just use existing bolt patterns (only exception so far was drilling one hole in the drawbar). If I decide to do something different in the future, I easily can. I don't envision a loader, just 3pt devices that need to slide left or right, up or down, open or close, etc. I'm pretty nimble. I don't think operations will be problematic or only rarely. I also don't see anything that needs to operate too awful fast, but I want some spare capacity just in case. I lean towards a 2000RPM rated 7-10gpm pump run closer to 1000RPM (once I investigate the flow curve vs RPM). That gives options to speed it up in the future if needed (provided there's the HP to do it). Also thinking of a clutch mechanism when the supplemental pump isn't needed.
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1952 CA13092
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 783 |
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Hmmm... This sounds like a perfect application for a 12 Volt snowplow pump.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 81240 |
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YEP... if your not CYCLING Constantly, i would go with a 12v electric pump..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dfwallis
Orange Level Joined: 09 Mar 2023 Location: DFW Points: 631 |
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Looked at a sampling. Way too tiny flow rate for way too humongous price. Plus I'd have to add a 12V source of some sort. I think I like my approach best. If I decide to change the takeoff source, I can just move the 10GPM pump. If I need a little higher flow rate than produced at 1000RPM I can change the pulley size and get a little boost (assuming available HP). The system has to connect to my console of 4 dual acting spools and 2 single acting spools as I've designed it and has to mount conveniently in the rear of the tractor. A small gear pump fits the criteria best.
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1952 CA13092
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10125 |
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They used to mount a hydralic pump in front of the distributor.
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