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Cloudy OIl again Please Advise ..Thanks

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Albertfitch View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 Nov 2011
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    Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 10:39am
Dear fans of Allis .. Please what are your thoughts on this new development  . I had the head milled flat , new gasket and reassembled  Your last advice saved the day ad I was up and running  I checked the oil a few times over the first 3 days ..looked perfect  but when checking the oil a week later it  was very cloudy again .I drained the oil pan and out rushed a quart of clear water and then 4 qts of cloudy oil.
   Should I re-torque the head bolts ..the tractor manual I have on the D10 didnt mention it but  but a car mechanic did.  If I need to , do I back them  off  a little in the reverse sequence and then take them up to specs in the assembly sequence. I also used a modern composite gasket and was told to put it on dry , no sealer. Though the manual said lather it on  and then lastly I reused the head bolts .  I drained the pan dry  left the plug out , filled the radiator, put a clean bucket under it and no water is leaking into the pan after 3 days of just sitting .  where did I go wrong .  All the best to you and my many thanks   ; Albert
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 12:11pm
that is a small leak. I have used BARS 1109 Copper Block Sealer for small problems withe gaskets, radiator, o-0rings on liners, etc... A 18 oz bottle cost about $10. ... You can use half of it and should solve your problem. It mixes with the antifreeze, no need to drain...

Dont get the pellets, the black gooie crap or silver flakes.... This is the right stuff.




Edited by steve(ill) - 21 Sep 2024 at 12:16pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 2:06pm
Thanks Steve I'll give it a shot tomorrow . It sure beats lifting off the head again and lining up the push rods have you heard if it's necessary to retorque the head bolts after a few outings  Thanks again for stepping in with such a quick and simple  solution . All the best Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 2:45pm
I have SAVED 3-4 different tractors for $8. that had a "LEAK" problem.. Just last week my sickle mower B had 2 quarts of antifreeze in the oil.. I pulled the valve cover to see if the freeze plugs were OK... no problem there , so its the head gasket or o-rings on the liners.. The BARS works GREAT on those areas !  ... still got 1/2 bottle left for next time.

And i did check the head bolt torque with the cover off.. Everything was TIGHT, so i dont really know what happened.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 7:10pm
Steve thanks so much again for the suggestion , the picture, and the confidence  from all your field work.  It almost makes me wish my sweet Allis had more  than 2 complaints over the the last 25 years , faithfully in harness...then I'd have more chances to go on the forum and enjoy the kinship from all you fine brothers . I'll  get get back soon and again thanks for the help ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 7:27pm
I've never had much luck with those composite gaskets installing them dry.  Always seem to leak.  i always give them a good spray with copper coat gasket spray, then they are usually OK.  And best to re-torque the head bolts after running it and getting it warmed up.  Let it cool down first, then re-torque to specs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 8:09pm
Alberta Phil I wish all you Allis brothers were just around the corner ,enough , to drop off a loaf of souerdough  . If I had to explain the strength that made this country's character  so great and successful ....I would send them here. Lord it's so refreshing  to know you're all still there!!! Plan B if the  down the radiator bottle isn't  up to a larger problem ( fingers crossed ) Alberta Phil  your help  is on deck  and thanks for the re -torque advice  ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KMAG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 8:46pm
Visit an Advance Auto or Autozone and rent a cooling system pressure checker. Remove the oil pan. Pressurize the cooling system and look for leak(s). Check each cylinder o-rings - if no leaks and head freeze plugs were good, then head gasket failed/surface issues or block crack.

Edited by KMAG - 21 Sep 2024 at 8:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreenOrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 7:05pm
I don't know that I saw your original thread/post, so I may be way off base here... just trying to rule-out something simple - is this tractor parked outside and has it rained between when the oil was fine and when it was cloudy?  I've seen significant water get into the engine through the muffler & manifold.  I once had about 2 quarts of rainwater in a B engine over the course of a month due to it not having the correct style muffler on it, to shield the connection from the rainwater.

Edited by GreenOrange - 22 Sep 2024 at 7:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KMAG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by GreenOrange GreenOrange wrote:

I don't know that I saw your original thread/post, so I may be way off base here... just trying to rule-out something simple - is this tractor parked outside and has it rained between when the oil was fine and when it was cloudy?Ā  I've seen significant water get into the engine through the muffler & manifold.Ā  I once had about 2 quarts of rainwater in a B engine over the course of a month due to it not having the correct style muffler on it, to shield the connection from the rainwater.


Great suggestion - your clear water in oil pan must be from rain, unless no coolant being used.

Edited by KMAG - 22 Sep 2024 at 7:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:09pm
Hi  Green  and orange why can't I get medical advice like this  anywhere, anymore !! If  only their consults  were 10 minutes away, as probative  and insightful , generous and enjoyable as the prognosis I get at this forum from all you dear fellows . all out of goodness. If I was a mental depressive I'd be posting anything here every day and getting of  those meds ,  I hadn't thought about rain down the pipe but you are so right . I did have a flapper cap on top and this  all took place during an unusual dry stretch  up here .  i I followed the first suggestion of  Bars  copper sealer and fingers crossed tomorrow , Thanks  again for all you good Help I'll post the results; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:14pm
Thanks for weighing in KMAG    wow I've learned so much from all of you  no I only use my Allis from May to November  without antifreeze and then drain it for the winter  but you made a great observation . Appreciate you help and all the best Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:25pm
Hi Kmag  again  I took your advice today drove to the only  Advance auto within 45 miles of my Little Hague , Ny   and that was one tool they didn't have as a loaner though my store in Md does. So I borrowed one from a retired friend - auto garage only to find the rubber ring that scrapes the cylinder wall , even after a little added oil managed to creak out  about 2 psi after furious pumping  and hold it for 5 seconds . I went with the Bar sealer and if that fails I 'll follow your excellent procedure .. Thanks for all your thoughtful help  all the best Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 9:32pm
cooling system should pump up to 7 to 10 psi and hold that for a week 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 9:58pm
If you are running water with no conditioner instead of antifreeze you are rusting things up inside. Why do you not run antifreeze and be done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KMAG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 10:34pm
The cooling system kits connect at radiator cap location to pressurize system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 6:46am
Originally posted by KMAG KMAG wrote:

The cooling system kits connect at radiator cap location to pressurize system.

The way the post was worded almost got me too, the cylinder wall & o-ring Albert's referring to is the pump part of the tester NOT of the engine Wink

I wouldn't trust the results of the 2psi leaking down so soon, more than likely the pressure tester needs stripped, cleaned and resealed so it may still have passed had the pump been working correctly.

The recommendation to run antifreeze is a good one, as they do contain a corrosion inhibitor which will preserve things & not require winter draining. Hopefully the Bars does the job OK. I've always had good luck with their products, but then again I've also had great success with a couple of teaspoons of ground black pepper!


Edited by ekjdm14 - 23 Sep 2024 at 6:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 7:50am
draining out the radiator and block for the winter and letting things DRY OUT, "COULD" lead to a problem also.... The new "LONG LIFE" antifreeze (yellow) is good for several years. Only need 1 gallon and a gallon of clean water to fill and leave it in there FOREVER..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 1:36pm
Sounds like youv'e escaped major damage so far...

I'll second the guys' notes on running no antifreeze, and draining it out.  It was  a common practice on big locomotive engines, if shutdown between October and May, to fully drain the engine of coolant, to prevent freeze damage... but they rarely shut down.

Your Allis has seals on the cylinder sleeves, and when they dry out, they shrink.  Leaving a 50/50 antifreeze in it, helps protect those O-rings and maintain the seal... so I recommend keeping the system full of 50/50.

If you're shutting it down for any length of time, make up a slip-on cover for the stack.  For flapper-tops, I use about a foot long piece of 4" SDR35 plastic drain pipe with a cap.... USUALLY it's big enough to totally cover the flapper.  Spray some aluminized paint over the plastic (UV is it's worst enemy).  Don't use a steel can- it'll rust through, and become a funnel.

Aside note-  if you're getting moisture into the intake path, and it accumulates in the oil-bath air-cleaner, and freezes in the wintertime, you'll have a devil of a time getting the engine started... until you disconnect the air cleaner from the carb... (don't ask me how I know)...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 3:14pm
Engine is supposed to be brought up to temp and then let cool down. Retorque the head and recheck valve adjustment. Dont back the bolts off, just retorque. The bolts aren't stretch to yield like the new stuff. You can reuse them several times. Even if the stop leak works I'd still retorque. Thats standard procedure on the old stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 3:52pm
I've had a flapper on my B for years, but still throw a Folger's plastic coffee container over the flapper just for extra protection. Had to change a couple out over the years due to the UV rays, but as long as Jo Jo keeps drinking Folger's I'm in good shape for a exhaust stack cover!  LOL!  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:17pm
Hi Steve   followed your plan bur to busy and travel away  to even start her up ..but will tomorrow  sorry  for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best  and gratitude ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:21pm
Hi Steve thanks for the concern and advice but to busy and travel away  to even start her up .but will tomorrow  sorry  for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best  and gratitude ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:23pm
Bossman  just  the insight I needed if the sealer fails  and thanks for the concern and advice but to busy and travel away  to even start her up .but will tomorrow . Sorry  for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best  and gratitude ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:26pm
Thank you Dave and hope I can uncross my fingers on this soon But  if the sealer fails thanks for the concern and advice but too busy and travel away  to even start her up .but will tomorrow . Sorry  for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best  and gratitude ; Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 9:13am
Thanks Steve I drink folgers too ..lots of it my shed is filled with old cans with roofing nails , grass seed , small carbs . I lost my first flapper a few years back going under a pine bough ,,lucky it didn't hit a deer it would have dropped it  looked for it for days LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 12:22pm
.

2L sodee-pop bottles have about the toughest durable plastic.

Costs ten cents but I trim the top off and wiggle it over the flapper top when not using the tractor. Being taller it's less likely the wind can lift and blow it off.

Those bottles hold around 40psi.

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:55pm
This is my rainguard! Have been using it for 50 years. When not in use it stays in that cubby hole in front of fuel tank on WD45. So it is always with the tractor. I think I deserve 1st prize for this but I know Iā€™m biased!!! šŸ˜€šŸ˜€

Edited by Ed (Ont) - 24 Sep 2024 at 8:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Albertfitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 8:35pm
Hi Ed clearly love your sweet Allis as I have mine ..after her first 10  faithful years under a tarp  I moved her into the barn . After 20   I let her share the garage , and moved my fickle  chevy out .  Last year I took the couch  and my wife;s lazyboy  and stored them  in  the driveway pod and then moved old faithful Allis into the living room . She's , a 65  yo  Italian beauty still stunningly beautiful If you dear helpful brothers on the forum spot her  please let her know  I moved Allis out from in front of the TV  You're all great I ran her for 4 hours today  after the re-torque and Bars sealer and I think  it worked  All THE BEST ALBERT
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