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Allis CA

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Sugarmaker View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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    Posted: 05 Sep 2024 at 9:05pm
Steve,
it has 'Z' code gleaner engine in it.
A little more power to the wheels, which is not always a good thing. 
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2024 at 9:49am
Chris...i must have missed one post.. Why do you call the tractor a WZ ? Wink
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2024 at 9:20am
Allis team,
 Took the Allis CA crank to the machine shop for evaluation of the thrust. Both the old and new thrust bearing measured about the same. Thrust was about .010 over spec.  So have decided to have him remove the crank gear, clean up the thrust surface on the crank and remove a little from the crank snout. Then re set the gear on the shaft bringing this dimension back to spec.

A few parts:

I did get the new battery charger on the E tank and half of the CA fuel tank has been in since yesterday. This charger has a timer for about 2 hours. Seems to be working OK.
small moves.

Tractor pull last night with the WZ. 3500 lb class had more than enough power and spun out well before the 300 foot mark. Well the clutches and governor spring worked fine. Now to find the best weight class. I think the additional weight on the rear (1000 lbs) bring it back to the 4500 lb class. It may be balanced much better??

Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2024 at 10:21pm
My vote:  save all CAs wherever they are no matter how far gone they are, no matter how much it costs :)
1952 CA13092
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2024 at 9:33pm
Allis folks,
The little CA project is fighting me every step of the way today. I did get several parts sandblasted. my compressor overheated and kicked off till it cooled down. 
Also prototyping an area in the shop to finally set up some work benches, tool boxes, and storage areas. This should help get some projects moving along quicker, maybe?:) So I need to build support structures for the 24 feet of new old work benchs. Also brought my old craftsman tool box from the house garage to compliment the larger craftsman box given to me by my grandson Mike. So my cost so far is about zero. I will have to buy some lumber for the legs.


Yesterday I had the sandblaster where the toolboxes were. I had to relocate the dust collector on the sandblaster to the back allow it to go back to the other side of the garage door. Just another minor job to keep moving forward. No I didn't clean the top of the tool boxes off as I moved them! It's my trademark. 

My view from the new bench, work area. I plan to wrap around the corner with another 12 feet of bench along the south wall also. Planning for just some shelving under the work surfaces too. Then I should be able to move my 4 x 7 foot work table into this corner as an island. Will this help me move along on the CA? Well its is a good diversion and much needed in the shop. Like any horizontal surface my areas get filled quickly with stuff! All kinds of stuff!

Oh yeah after ice cream with Cheryl we took a ride and looked at another CA. Yes the "Williow" CA tractor, is still sitting in the yard several miles away. Tires bad. water in the pan. Unsure if the engine is free? My guess is it's froze tight. Maybe even broken block? Anyway they are still out there. Do I need another? Not really! But the 4 great grand kids might have some fun at tractor pulls if it could be resurrected. Humm? 
Happy labor day!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl


Edited by Sugarmaker - 01 Sep 2024 at 9:59pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2024 at 1:21am
Allis folks,
We received the new main bearing set for the CA. I measured across the new thrust bearing and got almost the same readings as the old bearing 1.620 inches. When I set the old bearing and cap on the crank I can get about .014 inch of feeler gage between the bearing and crank faces. So I am going to take the crank and bearings to the machine shop and have him inspect them too. I know he can remove the crank gear and remove maybe .010 from the crank shoulder and replace the gear this would bring the thrust back into tolerance of .001 to .005 inches. That's the plan for now.
Hoping to turn the corner on this tractor build soon, it's been dragging on for a while! Doesn't feel like I have anything completed on the CA. I did move around a lot of the parts today trying to get a work area set up in the corner of the shop. I sandblasted the band for the gas tank. 
Hope things are good in orange land!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl


Edited by Sugarmaker - 01 Sep 2024 at 1:22am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2024 at 1:13am
Allis folks,
 A couple minor setbacks in the area of CA parts. The bearings are re- ordered. They came as incorrect components. A new set of rings were ordered as one of the oil rings was only 1/2 there, the broken portion was missing. I still have many moves to make, so this is not going to really hold up the project much. I have several full days of cleaning parts and nuts and bolts! 
Some cam shots:


Pretty exciting stuff here!:)
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2024 at 8:15pm
Guys,
 Thanks! Cheryl had a couple good days! She tolerates me and likes to get out to socialize. The tractor pull allowed me to test the old hand clutch in the Allis WZ. I pulled in second gear and should have been in first. Powered out and stalled short of the leaders. But it did not slip at either of the clutches.
Back on the CA: The main bearings are on their way from Sandy Lake! Brenda has always helped me with Allis parts and technical information too.
Cheryl and I took a ride to the machine shop working on some of the CA parts. I had him remove the old cam gear and install it on the reground cam. So I can start to learn more about degreeing a cam in an old CA engine. So we keep trying to move forward a little bit on the CA (Cheryl Ann) tractor project.
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl


Edited by Sugarmaker - 27 Aug 2024 at 8:17pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekjdm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2024 at 5:17pm
Happy birthday to Cheryl, been enjoying reading about this build since joining the forum. These old tractors are addictive, I can tell you that much!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2024 at 2:33pm
Happy Birthday to Cheryl
yes CA is gaining ground
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2024 at 11:49am
Happy birthday to Cheryl
Making good progress on that CA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2024 at 9:31am
Allis folks,
I did get the pistons cleaned up and checked the ring areas. Found that piston #2 had some type of minor damage to the top and it tightened the upper ring groove. Got that corrected, so that the ring fits the groove now. About ready to get the new rings in place.
The main bearings should be here soon. Will be interesting to see if the thrust is correct back to spec.
Oil pan has been through the E tank and looks better. Much to do on this unit. 
Cheryl's birthday today. 
Was going tractor pulling tonight but the rain is still heavy here in North West PA.
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2024 at 8:34pm
Folks,
I did get the CA cylinders honed, Much better. Also did some cleaning on the block. Cleaning pistons, thinking about cams. I did fire up the E-tank and have the CA oil pan in there for cleaning. 

Car shows with the 65 Comet and getting ready for tractor pull Monday night with a test of the WZ. Hope that works out with Cheryl, it is her birthday!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2024 at 8:17am
Paul, 
Thanks for the dimension and suggestions on setting the clutch throw out fingers. That will help.
I did get the WZ pulling tractor back together and out of the shop. So maybe I can get back on the CA engine refurb project?
Hope things are good in Orange land!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2024 at 7:10am
Chris: NO the fingers can NOT be correctly set on the bench. In the service manuals there is a specification that is supposed to work measuring from the clutch disc to the fingers, however if the flywheel has been resurfaced it will not get them right.
  Take a straight edge and measure back to the throwout bearing from the face of the bellhousing, this should be 5". This gives good thread contact on the clutch rod. I have the tab on the jig set to be 4-7/8" from the block face. This give 1/8" clearance at the throwout bearing. This is a bit tighter than the 1/4" that the service manual calls for, however I've found it allows the pressure plate to release cleaner. After installing the engine, I might need to give the clutch rod a 1/2 turn or so to get 1/2" free travel on the clutch rod (not peddle travel).
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 8:35pm
Paul, folks,
The jig looks like the ticket for setting the adjustable fingers . Can this dimension be set on the bench with the pressure plate not on the tractor?
I had not thought much about this, but I do need to set the clutch finger dimension for the CA pressure plate at some point. So more learning about the correct position of these pressure plate fingers.
Paul's if you can share the dimensions of your jig I think I could make something like this tool.
Regards,
Chris and Cheryl



Edited by Sugarmaker - 22 Aug 2024 at 8:37pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 6:14pm
This is the jig I made to set the fingers of the pressure plate on all the small block engines. This way everything is right the first time.

If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2024 at 9:13pm
John,
When I get this Allis WZ out of the shop, then parts should be here for the CA. Refreshed cam and lifters, new main bearings. I should be able to start the engine rebuild on the old CA puller project. We will see. Lots of fairs and pulls coming up. 
This little CA is something I want my Great grand kids to pull in the next few years.
Regards,
Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 6:58pm
You are moving right along sir. My money is on you having this back together before I get my WD engine back together, and I've had 4 years now. Ha!
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 5:48pm
Allis folks,
 I owe you some pictures!





I just wanted to show that we are doing a little on the little CA! Yep its still needs a lot of love. But its just nuts and bolts! You guys got to help me get this done!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl


Edited by Sugarmaker - 17 Aug 2024 at 6:11pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2024 at 4:37pm
Af C720Man, folks,
I am planning to use the std clutch plate as my Hp will be near stock.
We had fun at the dead boat pull today. Not many tractors as the weather was iffy and folks just don't attend if the weatherman says rain.
Probably had 30- 40 hooks. I pulled in 3750, 4000 and 4500 lb class with the WZ. The clutchs are not good in this old Allis but I was able to pull the flat boat loaded with dirt a little farther than several other tractors when loaded up for the 4500 lb class.
Its wasn't pretty but the old Allis got it done!
Thanks to my wife for tolerating me playing in the sandbox with the guys!
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 10:25pm
Chris, totally different beast but I put a 6 puck in my 190XT and love it. Rick built it for me. I know he doesn’t do clutches anymore which is a shame but it handles the extra hp Ed dialed in when he rebuilt my pump. Was just curious.
Rob
1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2024 at 8:49pm
Allis folks,
Well we have made some small moves to get items to bring this CA engine back to working order sometime in the future. A reworked cam and lifters from Paul will get things started. Some things to learn to get that set up correctly. Lots of measuring of the crank journals and the cylinders and pistons. Sandy Lake (Brenda) has helped figure out some of the other components to refurb this engine. New rings have been checked in the bore and the end gap is within the specs of .007 to .017 inches. pistons are being cleaned up. I will hone the cylinders to get a good surface. A new set of main crank bearings at .010 under should tighten up the thrust. So those are on their way also.
The head and flywheel are at the machine shop for improvements. New clutch and pressure plate and complete gasket kit is ready for being included in the assembly.
I am going to clean the block or take it to be cleaned. All the tapped holes in the block have been chased and cleaned out. 
The electrolysis tank needs to get set up again to help clean some of the engine items, like the pan and the front cover. I did get the new stud installed in the front of the engine, replacing the bent one (from when the block fell on the floor).
I will try to get some pictures loaded. Yea lots of work to do on this tractor. 

Tractor pull tomorrow at local show grounds. If the weather is good we will get to pull a stone boat loaded with dirt as the weight classes increase. I am taking the WZ with a bunch of weights loaded on it. Man the jib crane works great to install these weights. Will try to get some pictures too. Kind of a fun pull to let off steam and earn bragging rights. 
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 8:48pm
Paul, Folks,
 I am all for trying that option to improve the thrust on this CA engine.
The thickness of the front main is approx. 1.620 inches. Not sure what the dimension of a new lower main is?
Thanks for the support!
 Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 7:37am
You could probably get away with just replacing the 1/2 main bearing that is the thrust half. I've done that many times with a NOS bearing that I had on hand.
 As I mentioned in my clutch synopsis above: A heavy springed pressure plate will quickly ruin the thrust bearing in a BE/CE block. Aftermarket clutch rebuilders will claim that additional spring pressure will be better for the clutch disc, however it has an averse effect on the thrust bearing.
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 9:51pm
Allis Folks,
 Thanks on the addition of Cassie Fay to our family!
Paul,
Thanks for the info on those pockets. I rooted around more in the pockets in the crank rod journals. and found they were just blind pockets. No oil holes. So I came to the same conclusion about the no pressure to the rods. Seemed strange, but I am not a CA guy and the old WD series does have passages to the rods. I cleaned all the junk out of those pockets to allow some oil to reside in there.
The plot thickens on the old CA engine. Cheryl and I traveled to Sandy Lake to return the puck clutch, and get some parts this morning. 
When I got home I decided to check the thrust clearance on the crank. Way more than spec so I need to do some additional research as to options to bring that back closer to spec. It was .017 inches, the spec is .001 to .005 inches. yikes!
Just another day in the life of a old Allis engine. It's only nuts and bolts and a few other things thrown in.
Regards,
 Chris and Cheryl


Edited by Sugarmaker - 16 Aug 2024 at 9:07pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 6:08pm
Congrats on your newest family member!!
Helping the aged survive and thrive! 1953 CA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 2:39pm
Congratulations on the new Granddaughter. Hope you get to enjoy her as much as we enjoy our Grand Granddaughter that is now 15 month old, we usallly get her and her 3 1/2 year old brother one day a week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 6:11am
Yes, Those pockets in the crank are there to help oiling the rod journals. Way back when the original forum was live there was quite a discussion about CAs having pressure oiled rod bearing like the later small D series engines have. There were a couple of blowhards that swore that I was wrong and full of $hit about the BE/CE engines only having oil pressure to the mains and splash oiling to the rods. This is why the rods have holes in them to catch the oil spray from the camshaft through the holes in the rods and collect in the holes drilled into the crankshaft. Then as the crank rotates the oil lubricates the rod bearing. 
  One of the blowhards insisted he had a CE block in a B puller that he had built with extra stroke and bigger bore. While on a westward trip, I took a 100 mile detour to have a visit with this person. The engine that he claimed to have pressure oiled rods had an inspection hole big enough to pass a softball into just under the magneto. Then he proceeded to claim he had other CE blocks that had pressure oiled rods as well. I insisted that he pull a rod cap and try to run a wire through the hole, after he tried this, he found that the hole had a bottom and did NOT go all the way trough to the main bearing. Next when I asked him to explain the rod oiling holes in the camshaft, he thought they were for piston cooling, really in a CE block! Then I asked why the hole in the rods? If the rods were pressure oiled wouldn't the holes allow loss of oil pressure?
After that the claim that BE/CE blocks had pressure oiled rods died.
 If you would be interested in a high lift reground cam for your CA, I still have a couple that were reground by the Preacherman of N.C. who has sadly passed on. In all my years of pulling the CAs I've tried many different camshaft grinds and none did what his can, most were less performance.


Edited by PaulB - 10 Aug 2024 at 6:15am
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2024 at 5:46am
Congratulations on the new addition to your family!!
As for cam lobes, if you have a dial indicator you ought to be able to set it up on the block with a push rod and rotate the cam to verify lift. Once the push rod and indicator is set, zero the indicator on the base circle then rotate and observe the total lift. Compare that to factory spec.
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