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Crunning poorly at full throttle

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craigreavley View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Sep 2010
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    Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 11:42am
My C has started sputtering randomly at full throttle. Plenty of gas to carb, carb cleaned inside, new condensor, new 303 plugs, good wires, good cap, good rotor, good points, What am I missing here. Would the 303 Autolite plugs cause an issue.
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 11:54am
Pulling the choke a little doesn't help? If it does, there's a restriction in the carb, main needle not adjusted correctly, or a vacuum leak. Did you set the timing? Changing the points will change the timing. Overly advanced timing will make it sputter at rated speed. Is the distributor shaft wobbly in the bushings? The points cannot be properly set if the distributor shaft bushing is worn.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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craigreavley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote craigreavley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 11:58am
Pulling the choke doesnt help. What is the adjustment on the main needle. It is a marvel schebler card, and the only srew to adjust is 2 turns off bottom.I adjusted the timing and it seems to be in the middle of running poorly both directions. Distributor seems tight. What is the gap for the points, and plugs?
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 12:05pm
Not all carbs for the C had an adjustable main needle. Points are set at .020 and plugs .030 if I remember correctly. Another discussion a while back was new doesn't necessarily mean good. If you still have the old condenser, put it back in and see what happens. There could also be an internal leak in your carb. I have a similar carb on an Oliver 60 and it can be set to idle ok, or run ok above 1/2 throttle, but not both. I keep thinking I'll send it off to Steve in NJ to straighten out, but haven't gotten a "rountuit" yet...
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 12:14pm
If choking doesn't help and there's no distributor problem, it running too rich. That should show as a black soot in the exhaust pipe, maybe some black smoke. Turn the adjustment screw and see what effect it has. These carbs were not preset and require adjustment to run well. The  manual's setting is just close enough the engine will run so you can refine the setting. This is what tuning a vintage engine is. You get to trade off power for economy. Rich for most power, lean for best economy.

Gerald J.
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craigreavley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote craigreavley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 12:15pm
I have a much smaller zenith carb that is off of a 38B. It is half the size of the MS carb. I may try it to see if it changes the way it runs. I just ordered the main carb gasket from Sandy Lake. The zenith had a bad gasket.
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craigreavley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote craigreavley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 1:59pm
Gerald you are exactly right. There is black soot all over the exhaust, and I changed the plugs b/c they were fouled with black soot. It is running way too rich. It doesnt seem like turning the one screw on the carb does anything unless you turn it all the way in then the engine struggles. If i turn it all the way out it just runs the same. Why else would it run soo rich?.This has to be a carb issue right?????
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 6:02pm
So there's not two screws, one for idle air and one for high speed run? Sounds like there might be the wrong high speed jet or none at all. I had that happen in a VW I rebuilt long ago for a friend. Didn't perform well and used lots of gas. Lots of new engine parts didn't change it. VW mechanic finally decided to check for a main jet and it was missing.

The idle screw only adjusts decently at very slow speeds.

The governor HIDEs adjustment effects. You have to override the governor or use it as an indicator. With the governor held off, you adjust for the fastest engine speed. If you can't hold off the governor, then you need to watch the throttle shaft or segment and adjust the mixture for the minimum throttle opening. That's the governor hiding the effects of your adustment.

Gerald J.
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Gary in da UP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary in da UP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 7:20pm
It sounds as if you have done everything but adjust valve lash.......
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jraymer2244 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jraymer2244 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 6:40am

I had one running like that did everything you have done still didnt fix. Finally checked the air breather tube , dirt dobbers had the air choked almost off.  You might check that if you havent allready.

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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 9:36am
Agree with last post - had similar problem on my WC and found the air cleaner plugged with dirt between inner and outer walls. Cleaned it and my rich running problem went away.
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 11:39am
So true that the mixture depends on the air flow cleanliness before the carburetor. Bugs and birds like to nest in intake pipes and air cleaners. On my gas 4020 the Donaldson precleaner top was domed down contributing to it running rich.

One other cause of air flow restriiction can be accumulated grunge in the mesh of the vintage oil bath aircleaner. I recall many a time on this forum when part of the restoration involved burning that mesh to get rid of the accumulated grunge that limited air flow. I don't know that's good for the assembly, but its hard to clean.

Gerald J.
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