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ac45dave 
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Joined: 23 May 2015
Location: SE(IN)
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 Topic: D15/D14 final drive oil spec?
Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 7:23pm |
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I've recently added D14 and D15 to the fleet.Looking through the manuals I've noticed they call for 20w oil in the final drives.What was the reason for going to 20w for the finals in these tractors while D17 and wd45s called for 80w. Also what is the special transmission oil the d15 manual specifies equivalent to today?
Edited by ac45dave - 15 Mar 2021 at 7:26pm
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 7:34pm |
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You can use modern day Universal Transmission/Hydraulic fluid in every single compartment on that tractor except the engine. Power steering, hydraulic system, Power Director clutch, transmission and both final drives.
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 7:38pm |
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Dr is probably right, but i still wonder why UTF in the final drives.. They must have tested and said OK....... 40 years ago a 3/4 ton truck and 90 w gear lube in the transmission and rear end......... I bought a 1989 FORD with a 5 speed ZF transmission ( manual) and it had ATF in it.. That seemed odd to me.. I asked FORD and they said the transmission was "high speed" and the rear end was "low speed"... and slower turning heavier loaded gears needed gear lube.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 8:05pm |
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Modern Day Universal Trans/Hydraulic fluid is plenty good enough for 600 HP Challenger final drives, I'd think it would be just fine for a 40 HP D-15.
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ac45dave
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Posted: 15 Mar 2021 at 11:25pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
You can use modern day Universal Transmission/Hydraulic fluid in every single compartment on that tractor except the engine. Power steering, hydraulic system, Power Director clutch, transmission and both final drives. |
Dr I understand utf in every compartment.I was hoping you would reply to this thread and I respect your opinons.Do you have any insight as to why Allis changed from 80w to 20w in the finals back in the day?Just curious if you had any knowledge on what the back story was on the change.
Edited by ac45dave - 15 Mar 2021 at 11:28pm
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54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 6:09am |
maybe...since 80w is 'thicker' ,it'd 'stick' to the gears better/longer ? then the son of the guy in charge of supplies got a job at a '20W refinery' ,so daddy rewrote the 'spec' so the son could make some real money ??
I'm waiting for the 'no engine oil' day seeing how they have ZEROW oils..what # is next ??
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 6:35am |
They quit making the D-14 in 1960. Like everything else, lubricants have advanced a lot in 60 years.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 6:42am |
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Do I know for sure why they changed viscosity specs?? Nope. But I can guess. Before 1960 and the John Deere 3010/4010 everyone probably used an 80/90 weight oil in a high tooth pressure/slow speed final drive. When Deere's new tractor needed the hydraulic oil to be the transmission/hydraulic /wet brakes/final drive oil, oil scientists came up with what we call "303" oil that was able to take care of all of these components. I'm sure 80/90 was cheaper to produce, and still was produced, but now a new type of lubricant exists and slowly has taken over what used to be a heavy oils job. Think about it. A final drive on a 600 HP Challenger uses this modern oil without any troubles, why can't a D-14 ?? Remember, the D-14 came from the "CA" and it too had 20W oil in its final drives with no problems.
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Hurst
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Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 12:49pm |
Don't forget, comparing automotive engine oil weights to gear oil weights is not a direct cross. 80 weight gear oil is around the same viscosity as an SAE20 motor oil (between SAE20 and SAE30). So the fluid properties of the lubricants are going to be pretty similar as far as viscosity and hydro-dynamic properties. The differences are mainly in the additives, the gear oils generally having a higher extreme pressure additive package and typically pricier to put together. If I had to reverse-engineer it, I would guess the D14 finals were sized there they did not require a lot of EP additives to survive because they were relying more on the oil's fluid film strength to protect the parts and not entering the realm where heavy EP additives are required (enough stress to break the fluid film and have direct metal-metal contact). The larger tractors probably were at danger of this, hence the gear-oil call out. Another thing to watch for is brass bushings can be damaged by certain gear oils due to high amounts of sulfur EP additives. Not sure if that is a concern with the D14. 
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours
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