180 D doesn't start when hot

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    Hi, I have a diesel 180 (1967) that starts and seems to run fine and will run all day(at least 5 hrs.the most i've had it running)or untill I pull the shut down knob. When I try to restart a couple of minutes later it just turns over does't fire, but will restart about 15 to 20 minutes later (the block is still quite warm)but seems to struggle (rolls over a couple of more times then when cold). I've seen at least one posting where someone had this problem with a combine but the solve was the fuel shut off solinoid (went thermal) which doesn't apply. I have checked the fuel flow to the pump, and it seems fine, and I have primed the system without braking the fuel system thinking that it may be pulling air into the fuel lines.  Is there a possibility that the manual fuel shut off is getting stuck, or the pump is suffering from some sort of internal vapor lock, or external from the pump to the injectors . I havn't cracked a fuel line yet to bleed air but would think that I would see fuel on the side of engine if this were the case. The engine has about 7000 hrs on it uses oil (mainly leaks from valve cover) but doesn't smoke excessivily.Thanks for any help in advance and sorry about any spelling errors.Stuart

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Stuart OH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jul 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuart OH Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: 180 D doesn't start when hot Posted: 25 Jul 2010 at 3:49pm
	Hi, I have a diesel 180 (1967) that starts and seems to run fine and will run all day(at least 5 hrs.the most i've had it running)or untill I pull the shut down knob. When I try to restart a couple of minutes later it just turns over does't fire, but will restart about 15 to 20 minutes later (the block is still quite warm)but seems to struggle (rolls over a couple of more times then when cold). I've seen at least one posting where someone had this problem with a combine but the solve was the fuel shut off solinoid (went thermal) which doesn't apply. I have checked the fuel flow to the pump, and it seems fine, and I have primed the system without braking the fuel system thinking that it may be pulling air into the fuel lines. Is there a possibility that the manual fuel shut off is getting stuck, or the pump is suffering from some sort of internal vapor lock, or external from the pump to the injectors . I havn't cracked a fuel line yet to bleed air but would think that I would see fuel on the side of engine if this were the case. The engine has about 7000 hrs on it uses oil (mainly leaks from valve cover) but doesn't smoke excessivily.Thanks for any help in advance and sorry about any spelling errors.Stuart

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rob(ont) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Kingsville Ont Points: 84	Post Options Post Reply Quote rob(ont) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 2010 at 5:55pm
	Yup, worn injection pump barrel. Try pouring some cold water over the pump next time. Will contract the barrel and fire off. Might get lucky and be able to increase the charge pressure and get along for a while, but a rebuild is coming.

Stuart OH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jul 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuart OH Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 2010 at 9:27pm
	Thanks you may be right about the injection pump barrel, I'm not so sure about dumping cold water on a alumimum housing but maybe warm I think I get the drift of the check you suggest. The only problem I've ever run into like this one was running a Cat. truck engine out of fuel at the station while refilling, an it stopped running. I had to crack an injector line to bleed the air off of the high pressure side, start the engine and then tightened the line back up. I didn't consider the housing expanding and dropping the pressure enough to prevent the injectors from firing on a running engine. I had it figgured that the system was getting air in it or a check valve was getting stuck stopping fuel flow in the pump.

Amos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1316	Post Options Post Reply Quote Amos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jul 2010 at 6:31am
	There is a valve in the injection pump that maintains pressure in the injector lines. My guess is yours is sticking open when hot or leaking. I had a pump rebuilt and it came back doing just what you describe. Cost a lot of money at the pump shop that put in the defective valve as others as they could not get the pump as hot as on the tractor. Old service manager fixed it for me. I think the valve was like $24 or there abouts and a hour of his labor.

injpumpEd Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4912	Post Options Post Reply Quote injpumpEd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jul 2010 at 10:12am
	180/185's had such a low roller dimension, that a little wear in the head and rotor shows up, especially hot. usually a rebuild and adjustments can cure the problem.
	210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!

Calvin Schmidt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4525	Post Options Post Reply Quote Calvin Schmidt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jul 2010 at 12:46pm
	Neighbour had the same problem last week on a L3 combine with 670T engine. Had to rebuild the injection pump. Worn rod or something. Only a starting problem when hot.
	Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed

Stuart OH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 25 Jul 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuart OH Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 11:40pm
	Thanks Guys for giving me a place to start looking. Even though I've been around diesels for about 20 years I had never heard of this sort of problem. I bought this tractor 2 years ago and may have been this way when I got it, or maybe just started. It's usually start it, do what ever,shut it off untill next use.