MTD Lawn Tractor Creeps Even With Brake Engaged

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   Hey guys, I'm having a real time with this and thought I'd see if anyone here on this forum could help. It's driving me mad.
I have owned a 1998 MTD Yard Machines garden tractor (Model 820) since new. A year ago, I changed both the front drive belt (engine to variable speed pulley) and the rear drive belt (variable speed pulley to transmission). It seems ever since it will now creep forward or reverse when in gear, even with the brake/clutch applied fully. It runs and moves fine otherwise. I have to put it in neutral to get it to stop.

I figured the no-name brand belt I purchased for the front drive belt was the culprit....maybe it was too tight.. So I bought a new MTD brand belt. No change.

I have also done a "Speed Control Adjustment" procedure as outlined in the owners manual, since it pertains to the belts. But again, no change.

And after all that, a bought yet -another- MTD brand belt, making sure I had the right part number. I put it on the front, and I just happened to have the OLD variator to transmission belt, so I put that back on the rear. No change!! Still creeping...

I posted a short video I took of the issue: https://youtu.be/vx8s21kwdHg

Most of the beginning of the video, the transmission is in neutral. The parking brake is on (clutch-brake pedal down and locked). I release the brake during the video so you can see the variator pulley moving and the results. The speed selector is in the highest setting, 7. 

I then put it in gear, which immediately makes the mower roll forward and then rearward, even though the clutch-brake pedal is depressed fully, with parking brake set. 

What have I done wrong here?!!!

Tom

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Gunn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Location: Maryland Points: 62	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gunn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: MTD Lawn Tractor Creeps Even With Brake Engaged Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 4:54pm
	Hey guys, I'm having a real time with this and thought I'd see if anyone here on this forum could help. It's driving me mad. I have owned a 1998 MTD Yard Machines garden tractor (Model 820) since new. A year ago, I changed both the front drive belt (engine to variable speed pulley) and the rear drive belt (variable speed pulley to transmission). It seems ever since it will now creep forward or reverse when in gear, even with the brake/clutch applied fully. It runs and moves fine otherwise. I have to put it in neutral to get it to stop. I figured the no-name brand belt I purchased for the front drive belt was the culprit....maybe it was too tight.. So I bought a new MTD brand belt. No change. I have also done a "Speed Control Adjustment" procedure as outlined in the owners manual, since it pertains to the belts. But again, no change. And after all that, a bought yet -another- MTD brand belt, making sure I had the right part number. I put it on the front, and I just happened to have the OLD variator to transmission belt, so I put that back on the rear. No change!! Still creeping... I posted a short video I took of the issue: https://youtu.be/vx8s21kwdHg Most of the beginning of the video, the transmission is in neutral. The parking brake is on (clutch-brake pedal down and locked). I release the brake during the video so you can see the variator pulley moving and the results. The speed selector is in the highest setting, 7. I then put it in gear, which immediately makes the mower roll forward and then rearward, even though the clutch-brake pedal is depressed fully, with parking brake set. What have I done wrong here?!!! Tom
	1961 D-15 Hi-Clearance

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jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24776	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 5:27pm
	Ok, I have the MTD service manual 'somewhere' on this or anotehr PC and can't easily find it...naturally so, obvious question.. is there any chance you've got the main belt( engine to varipulley ) on the wrong way where it passes 'through' the 2 flat pulleys midway back ? I've had LOTS of those MTD units can't recall a 'creeping' one. With the correct belt, on the correct way, it should slip as there's no tension on it. Maybe check for a spring on the wrong way( pulling left ,when it shoulf pull right ) The drawings of the belt layouts are from looking DOWN on the beasties NOT from the bottom up. When I work on any rider, I lift it the front end up with the chain hoist, darn near vertical so I can get to all them bits and pieces. Odds are it's so obvious you can't see it.....sigh, welcome to my World. Jay
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

Gunn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Location: Maryland Points: 62	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gunn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 8:20pm
	Thanks Jay. So should that belt going from middle variator pulley to transmission NOT be moving at all with the brake clutch pedal fully pressed? I will look and study it again...but that belt from engine to middle variator is pretty much a no-brainer in how its routed and installed. Like you said there has to be something I'm just overlooking here! Tom
	1961 D-15 Hi-Clearance

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24776	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 9:01pm
	from the 'professional Shop Manual, 700 series'... ...If the tractor creeps when in gear without any input to the drive pedal, the double idler pulley may be out of adjustment. This condition must be corrected and is covered in the Adjusting The Variable Speed Control of section of this chapter... Yes, that belt, what I call the main drive belt HAS to be 'slack' when the clutch/brake pedal is pushed. ANY tension and you'll get creep.. I found the pro manual online tonight using google and some luck. It's about 15,500KB long,lots of pictures and tech stuff. I'm assuming yours will be similar as MTD make them for 1/2 the world !! I'll try to find the manual link for you( never found the one in my computer though !) Jay
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24776	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 9:04pm
	https://mymowerparts.com/pdf/MTD-Service-Repair-Manuals/Yard-Machine-700-series-riders-repair-manual..pdf hopefully this is it..... maybe this will help https://mymowerparts.com/pdf/MTD-Service-Repair-Manuals/2000-MTD-Technical-Handbook-Service-Manual.pdf edit: forgot to mention... the 1st manual has the SCHEMATIC !! and how it all works !! very handy as most MTDs will be similar, so you've got a leg up on troubleshooting ! Jay Edited by jaybmiller - 10 Nov 2018 at 9:11pm
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

HD6GTOM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Location: MADISON CO IA Points: 6627	Post Options Post Reply Quote HD6GTOM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:54pm
	Brake worn out???

shameless dude Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 10 Apr 2017 Location: east NE Points: 13607	Post Options Post Reply Quote shameless dude Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 5:24pm
	brakes? who needs brakes?

tadams(OH) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 11025	Post Options Post Reply Quote tadams(OH) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 1:50pm
	It's all in the adjustment, you have to keep them variable speed belts adjusted up just right for it to work correctly

HudCo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3948	Post Options Post Reply Quote HudCo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 9:02pm
	will the sheaves on the variatar pulley slide up and down so that one side can tighten and open the other side the center of that sheave may be siezed or not moveing smooth

penarddan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 29 Jan 2021 Location: Atlanta Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote penarddan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 6:15am
	I have a lawn tractor and I have the same problem, I need a specialist, who can help me?

jaybmiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 24776	Post Options Post Reply Quote jaybmiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 6:39am
	a few post above....click on the orange 'links' to get the manuals, the 200 manual is 128MB PDF, so it'll take a 'wee-bit-of-time' but well worth the 'coffee break'. My Cub Cadet(yeah, it's an MTD really...) is the hST versio, though I worked on a lot of them 'automatics' over the years. changing the 2 belts was always a 'fun' job. pretty sure that's the ones with a fwd-neu-rev gearbox. Ram it from fwd to rev enough times and a pin inside gets 'mushed' will keep it in 'gear'. It needs 'gentle' shifting, as if anyone does that..... hay, links still work ! see page 42 of the Yardmacine 700 manual..... oopsy, it's page 43 actually.... Jay Edited by jaybmiller - 10 Feb 2021 at 8:04am
	3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water

Dakota Dave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: ND Points: 3972	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dakota Dave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 10:26am
	I had a power bourse do that the variable speed pulley was sticking. When my JD vari drive would engage all the way the vari drive pulley was sticking. Take out the vari drive pulley the middle section of it should flop back and forth freely clean it up till it moves with no force. You should be able to blow on it and make it slide. If it has a wear spot you'll need to replace it.