Hd11b

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   I'm looking at a hd11b, is there anything to look out for? I understand the rails and sprockets can be converted. Should I be afraid of the final drives? Can you still get parts to rebuild the powershift? He says the converter is slow to lockup sometimes? I've been around cats all my life, but always wanted an Allis too. 

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7060 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Missouri Points: 1148	Post Options Post Reply Quote 7060 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Hd11b Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 12:06pm
	I'm looking at a hd11b, is there anything to look out for? I understand the rails and sprockets can be converted. Should I be afraid of the final drives? Can you still get parts to rebuild the powershift? He says the converter is slow to lockup sometimes? I've been around cats all my life, but always wanted an Allis too.

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CAL(KS) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3786	Post Options Post Reply Quote CAL(KS) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 4:17pm
	Hopefully Lazyts will chime in, I think he's well aquainted with 11Bs
	Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15

DMiller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 31068	Post Options Post Reply Quote DMiller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 6:17pm
	This the high hood Older HD11B or the newer 11B?

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 10:00pm
	11-B used Rockford torque converter, same as TD15C IH, and transmission is Twin Disc (I think) . Some parts still available through Minnpar. As far as torque is concerned, I would check to see if the driveshaft to the transmission is turning when the machine slips. It seems pretty common on those for the transmission clutches to slip when the oil is cold. Final drives use tapered roller bearings, which by their nature loosen up over time, other than that, quite robust, no worse than Cat or any thing else with bull gear final drives. I've heard Cat guys call them "financial drives". If you are used to running Cat dozers, the Allis has a "sloppier" feel, because of the different torque converter design.

7060 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Missouri Points: 1148	Post Options Post Reply Quote 7060 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 3:39pm
	I think he said it does only do it when it's cold. Is this a problem, or a sign? I'm used to running newer cats (D6R) with a torque converter, pushing trees the converter will get hot. I'm planning on using it mainly as a finish grade machine. It is a later machine I believe.

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 7:22pm
	One good thing about the 11-B, it is a cool running machine- if your radiator is clean, you can work them hard. The transmission on ours slips bad when cold, takes about 20 minutes to warm up to where you can spin the tracks, after that it pulls like crazy. It can be a real pain, easy to get stuck when cold, or if you get stuck and it cools down, it's like pulling dead weight..

Steve allis dozer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Access Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Location: Australia Points: 232	Post Options Post Reply Quote Steve allis dozer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 6:15am
	They go well if you let them get up to operating temp before heavy pushing [TUBE]JuheVOkK7OI[/TUBE]

Mactractor Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mactractor Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 4:38am
	Would it be that they prefer thinner oil (the Rockford converter tractors)? Never noticed too much temperature related difference with my old Twin Disc converter EP. I think the Twin Discs had higher torque multiplication though. When winching, you could apply a pull that was impressive for a tractor of that size if you had good rope. I bent a 3 inch diameter shackel pin pulling a track hoe from a bog, using blocks and die swaged rope.

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 10:31pm
	The older EPs were rated at 150 hp, while the later ones with the Rockford converter were only rated for 140, and the series B machines were a little heavier. Those older ones were real power houses, unlike the early 16Dps which were under powered. I had one of the older EPs, we couldn't do anything with it, got hot always, had a new rad in it too. It also had a warped clutch in the transmission, maybe that was the problem... The guy that I got it from had operated it since new, and had bought it from the original owner, who he had previously worked for, sounded like it had been running hot for a long long time, they mostly worked in the winter. One old guy I know who had many 11s said you could never pull a breaking disc or plow with the old EPs, they always got hot. Another thing, with the older machines we don't have trans heat gauges, so we never really know how hot the converter is. With the newer machines you see that heat rise in the converter, lights come on, etc- maybe sometimes ignorance is bliss?

Mactractor Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mactractor Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 11:47am
	Yep, had to regularly clean radiator when oil and fuel leaks around engine would begin to cause clogging. Would clean it every day in warm weather. I knew from that experience, the tractor would never handle heavy drawbar work with constant load. For that sort of work, a direct drive 11 would be the answer. Eliminate the torque converter, you eliminate the over heating problem. Was told the series B's had a bigger radiator than the EP's though.

Lazyts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Manitoba Points: 627	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lazyts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 8:04pm
	Yeah, went from 32 to 34 inches, I think. There were several "in field" retrofit radiators for the EP series, was obviously a problem AC was dealing with at the time. I worked at a JD farm implement dealership, and one of the changes to the 9600 combine was a radiator spacing of 7.5 mm instead of 5mm on the earlier models. It was a night and day difference- any trash that came through the screen would go on through the radiator and it wouldn't plug. The 5mm ones (fin spacing) would plug and the machine would overheat. The push fan on a dozer also tends to bend over the fins which reduces the efficiency..

7060 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Missouri Points: 1148	Post Options Post Reply Quote 7060 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 5:09pm
	What were the differences between the earlier direct drive hd11 and the 11b? Final drives, engine, differential, steering clutches?

Ian Beale Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Location: New South Wales Points: 973	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ian Beale Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 5:15pm
	" The push fan on a dozer also tends to bend over the fins which reduces the efficiency.." Seems to get worse as dust blasting thins the fin edges

Mactractor Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Points: 652	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mactractor Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 9:52pm
	The direct drive tractors with oil steering clutches were the same as the powershift models except for their trans. For each line of 11's with oil steer, the trans would be either oil engine clutch with 6 speed/3 speed constant mesh direct drive, or torque converter with powershift trans. The engines on the direct drives had slightly less horsepower. Same with the Series B 11's. From the beginning of oil steer, a number of changes were made, but they were made to both direct drive and powershift models all the way through to the end of production. The AG models differed only slightly, with lightweight nose cones and less track guarding.