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wegener.mike86 
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Location: PA
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 Topic: 51 AC ca
Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:04pm |
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Hello, I am hoping someone can help me.
I just bought my first AC. it is a CA, I am trying to rewire what appears to be a voltage regulator that is held onto the generator on the left side of the engine(if sitting in the seat)
appears to have 4 connections on it. This evening I tried to turn the engine over with the starter only to have it bump start maybe a 1/4 turn of the engine, never gave me a full revolution. I had the battery on charge for 24 hours, and all connections seem clean and tight.
If the regulator is wired incorrectly could this be a cause as to why the starter can not rotate the engine?
The engine will turn over by hand, so I know it is not seized or locked up.
If anyone can help that would be very appreciated.
Mike
Edited by wegener.mike86 - 08 Apr 2017 at 8:35am
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:05pm |
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please high light my last post to read it, for some reason the color is not black.
thank you.
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DaveSB
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:40pm |
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The voltage regulator on your tractor, which should probably originally be a cut out, should have nothing to do with the ability of the starter to turn the engine over or not. If the battery is good, and all connections are clean, have you tried removing the starter and cleaning the nose cone and the cavity where the starter nose cone contacts the housing? It must be clean enough to transfer ground path through so the starter will operate. Is your tractor 6 volt or 12 volt? Good luck.
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1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:51pm |
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You could temporarily remove all the wires to the generator. Take a few pictures FIRST though......makes life easier next week, believe me !
IF 6 volt ,ALL battery connections MUST be 100% perfect to start the tractor.
I'd pull all four plugs and see how well she spins. With the plugs laying on the valve cover, they should all give a nice blue spark. No spark generally means the points are corroded, easily cleaned with very fine sandpaper( like paper matches striker).
Does it have a 'pull rod' starter switch or a 'car style solenoid' starter ? The rod type do wear down and won't deliver enough current can be cleaned up with a fine file. The latter can just be replaced but be sure to get correct one ( 6V or 12V ).
Others will offer ideas, this forum has LOTS of great guys who KNOW what to do and how to fix anything...
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Chris (swIA)
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:52pm |
Making several assumptions here but the wiring to the voltage regulator shouldn't affect it turning over unless its draining the battery. Did it turn over before rewiring it? Assuming it is still 6 volt, what size are your battery cables? they need to be sized for the 6 volt system. When you cleaned connections, did you remove the starter and clean where it mounts? It grounds through the case to the tractor and that can be an issue.
It sounds like a low battery or bad connections from the battery to the starter or ground.
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 5:59pm |
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 6:04pm |
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hey guys thank you for the responses. I have not removed the starter. Just got it 4 days ago. It had a bad coil in the Mag. So never the less, the mag was removed and the regulator was taken off for some reason, by the previous owner. That is how I received it. Only reason I questioned my wiring attempts. I will try to remove an clean the starter nose and contact areas. I will also try to post some pictures as well. also it is a 6 volt positive ground system.
Edited by wegener.mike86 - 07 Apr 2017 at 6:05pm
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 6:14pm |
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Did you wire the ignition coil to match the battery polarity? If the coil and battery polarity match the spark is better.
Testing spark with the plug connected to the wire put pulled from the engine is not a great test. The voltage required to spark the typical .025" spark gap at atmospheric pressure is a lot less than required with there's 100 psi or more compression pressure. A better test is to hold the plug wire end about 3/8" from the block. There should still be a fat blue spark at that distances, sometimes 1/2". If the spark is yellow there is a problem with the condenser at the points.
Gerald J.
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 5:53am |
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Again thank you all for your help, does anyone have a wiring diagram of the regulator /cutoff relay. on the 3 of the 4 posts I can Read (L Batt F) . Also if you look at the what I would call the dashboard, contains the Amp meter and Light switch, what did the third switch to the right of the light switch control? (if you were sitting on the tractor)
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Ted J
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 6:30am |
Mike, you can change the color of the first post so we can see it. Just go up to the right side and see "Post Options". Go down to "Edit Post" and when that window opens, just highlight the whole thing and then toward the right side you will see an "A" with a line under it. This is the text color-er. Click on that and go to black. Go down to "Update Post" and click on that. Should be fine after that. You can edit any post you make using that Post Options and use it to Quote others and more. HTH When you have the starter out to check the nose cone, try turning it over without it being in the tractor. TIE it down somehow and make sure you have it grounded good to the tractor and hit the starter for just a sec. If it doesn't turn very well, you could have either brushes or an armature problem. As an alternative, you can take it into any auto parts store and they will test the starter for you. It's a LOT safer. That's why I say make sure you have that starter TIED down somehow, as there is a LOT of torque when you try it. Hopefully it is just brushes and not the armature or winding's that are bad. Get back to us on this. By the way, 
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macvette
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 8:31am |
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Only other thing to check is the ground from the battery to the steering post. Make sure you have the woven ground strap (not a round one covered in plastic) and make sure there is metal to metal contact from the ground strap to the steering post. No paint or rust under the strap to post. I had a plastic covered ground strap that had developed corrosion underneath the plastic, and also had rust under the cable at the steering post. Replaced the cable, wire brushed the post, and my problem was solved. Mine is still 6 volt also.
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:01am |
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Macvette thanks you for the post, I do have a plastic coated ground strap, I will replace that with a woven one, I am still puzzled by this regulator type device, As mentioned before it has 4 post on it. 3 of which I can read that are labeled (L Batt and F) the forth is on the opposite side and does not have any markings that I can make out.
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Jim-Ohio
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:19am |
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If it had a magneto the switch on the bottom right side of the instrument panel is the kill switch for the magneto to shut the engine down.
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'61D17, '51WD, '51CA, '41C, '49C, Woods 5'&6'Mower, 6'Blade, CA-Plow, CA-Cultivator, 3-Btm snap-coupler plow, 4-row planter, WD 4-row cultivator, 80R mower,#7 mower,B/C mower
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:36am |
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Ok thank you Jim
I do have a mag, I am guessing that on the magneto towards the front then there is a small stud that is where the wire for that switch would go. Awesome, any idea what the (L batt and F ) mean on the regulator?
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macvette
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 9:54am |
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Unfortunately, mine still has the original type cutout relay on it, not the voltage regulator that some have replaced the cutout with, so I don't have a clue what the hookup would be for the terminals.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 10:19am |
First, Welcome to the Allis Chalmers Forum. As you can see there is a most helpful group here that share a common Interest in Allis Chalmers. You have obtained one of the "neatest" tractors I ever sold. Perky, good looking, dependable, and very easy to operate. For electircal work if you need additional help I would suggest you contact SteveNJ. His firm Custom Circuits - an advertiser on this site - is what I consider our "in house" electrical expert. While I worked on them I am not an expert on wiring. You have received excdellent information above. Listen closely. Would love to see pictures. If you are not too far away from south eastern PA you may consider our Mid Atlantic Allis Chalmers Club. It is a group of Allis Chalmers Enthusiasts who meet quarterly. Good Luck! Bill Long
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 10:28am |
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Bill thank you,
I hope to get pictures posted later today, Yea I have received a tremendous wealth of knowledge thus far and I am great full. I hope to get the starter issue corrected this afternoon. I will try to reach out to the gentlemen from NJ, Really hoping to hear it run today.
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 12:17pm |
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Not sure how to post any pictures since the program says file is to big. But on a later note, pulled the starter, useing some jumper cables i was able to get the starter to spin, not as much torque as i was expecting. Maybe starter has too much resistance? Was able to get motor to spin over 1 full revolution, but thats about it.
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 12:25pm |
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4iDYR0wHQTlNHlzSkpuRG8tbms/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4iDYR0wHQTlN3BGQ25DQ0RqMUE/view?usp=drivesdk
Trying to see if you all can see these photos.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 1:20pm |
I would definitely disconnect the generator till you get the engine running and can properly check out and polarize the genny. A regulator is NOT standard equipment on that tractor so wiring could be cobbed or wrong. If the engine starts and the genny isn't wired right, smoke can come out of it, costing way more than your time to disconnect a couple wires. A good charged up battery can last you all year long if all it has to do is start the engine once in awhile. You don't NEED the generator for the engine to run beings you have a magneto.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 2:03pm |
L = lights bat = battery F= field of the generator
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wegener.mike86
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 4:08pm |
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Hey guys just an update, replaced the neg wire going to starter and taking the plugs out engine turns over nicely. With plugs installed it seems to not be able to over come the compression.
Any thoughts? I also took the starter to an auto part store and they tested it seemed to perform as it should. Almost fell on the floor when the kid tested it. So any suggestions what my next step should be? ALSO I do not seem to be getting any spark what is the best way to test spark, tried holding plug against block not sure if that worked but I did not see a spark when doing that.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 6:22pm |
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The magneto kill wire is not compatible with battery ignition. It shorts the points when in the kill position. It will stop the engine, but will keep power on the ignition coil cooking it and running the battery down.
I holding the plug against the block doesn't get you a spark at the plug in air you have very little ignition voltage and its sure that won't fire the compressed mixture.
The distributor assembly has several critical items. 1. alignment of rotor with plug wire connection when the points open. 2. centrifugal advance working right to advance the spark at higher engine speeds to account for the finite time it takes for the fire to grow. 3. timing right for the engine, just before top dead center for cranking and advanced 20 or 25 degrees for full engine speed. 4. a good condenser. 5. for positive ground the negative terminal of the coil primary supplied with 6 volts and the positive post connected to the points and condenser without any pinched wires. 6. 6 volt coil for a 6 volt system, 12 volt coil won't give good ignition. 7. not too big a gap between the rotor tip and the posts inside the cap. 8. no cracks in the rotor or the cap.
Gerald J.
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