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macvette 
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Location: nekoosa, wi
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 Topic: "New" rectifier and regulator Onan CCKB-SOLD
Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 1:51am |
Paid $83.00 from Onan Parts for new rectifier #0541-0592 (didn't fix), and then $91.00 next from Onan Parts for new regulator #541-0593 trying fix the no charging problem on my 620 - didn't help, cause the "good used" stator I bought apparently wasn't. These part numbers supercede/replace the old part numbers in the Onan parts manual. Information and pricing is still available from Onan Parts. Is there any interest in either of these?
I took them off the tractor, as I am going to mount an external alternator. Still have the box and instructions for the rectifier.
Would like to get at least half of what I paid for these if there is any interest.
Thanks
Edited by macvette - 09 Dec 2016 at 10:18pm
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 6:01am |
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OUCH ! Man I feel your pain... kinda late now but you should have confirmed you get 30-40 Volts AC from the 2 stator wires....before ordering the reg/rect parts. Since you've got those 'new' parts, why not either get a real good stator or just rewire what you have?
I've rewired stators in the past,it ain't hard to do. Take a couple pictures,remove old wire by COUNTING the number of 'loops' each stator 'post' has on it. They should all be the same..It's just one piece of wire and easy to test. There should be continuity( low resistance) between the two ends.If it's 'open', the wire is busted(easy to fix). The other test is two check between one of the ends and the metal ring, That HAS to be OPEN. If it's not, there's a 'short' and has to be found. The short can be casued by the enamel coating having rubbed off,allowing the bare copper to touch the ring. Again a fairly easy fix,when you find it, just insulate with black tape.
Another option is to find another tractor(any colour) that has same/similar engine. Harvest it's stator,test, and you may get lucky.
If you had room, a CS-130 (late 90s GM) alternator could be a viable option.Lot smaller than those 'big beasties' from the 70s.
rewiring the stator will only take 2 hours...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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macvette
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 7:57am |
yep, the old statement = If I knew then what I know now, things would have been different= is definately true here. Unfortunately, I just took a forum member at his word, bought the stator and flywheel sight unseen for quite a few $$, and installed it. Put the engine back in, and as they say, the rest is history. Yep, I now know , from many more knowledgeable people than I, and yourself, that checking for resistance in the stator should have been done before I had installed it. I will admit that I'm not much of a electrical guy, but I could have had someone do it for me. This whole thing has played out over a couple of years, but now I was able to purchase a snowblower, and figure I might have to generate some electricity for the chute motor, as well as just the electric clutch. I have purchased a small mini alternator, and a gentleman is making me a shaft and pulley setup such as he and some other 620/720/Powermax owners have used to mount the alternator when they had a problem like mine.
Thanks for your information. Sure wish I was more knowledgeable then! LOL!
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TREVMAN
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 11:40am |
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Just a thought, but instead of going through the grief of mounting an alt., maybe you could send your stator to Steve or someone else that knows what they are doing and have it made right, put on your new parts and it should be good for a while. hth, Trev.
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macvette
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 3:39pm |
I hear ya, Trev! If I would have been this knowledgeable about this type of thing when I had originally pulled the engine, and systematically started replacing parts a couple of years ago, I definately would have had the "good used" stator repaired by Steve, or someone knowledgeable like Jay. (the original flywheel had a magnet come loose, and tore everything up - including stator wiring - thus the need to purchase replacement)
Just don't want to have to go thru the hassle of disconnecting and pulling the engine again this late in the season, in an unheated area, when we may need it for winter snow work - but who knows - still 50 degrees here in Central WI, and supposed to be warmer again this weekend!
I'll take this good weather as long as we are blessed to have it, even tho I want to try out my recently purchased snowblower for my 620!
Thanks for the advice - maybe if I ever get a 2nd 620/720 with a loader, I will now have this knowledge - course I will be single and living in a dog house with the tractors if that purchase happens!
Edited by macvette - 11 Nov 2016 at 3:44pm
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TREVMAN
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 4:52pm |
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You and a buddy, 2 hours and its out. Or just put the trickle charger on after use this winter, go at it in the spring. By the way, you will love the blower, they really move snow. Trev.
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macvette
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 5:27pm |
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Blower will probably work a little better than the blade I have been using the last few years 'cause blade is fantastic on our blacktop driveway, not so much on our lawn where I have scalped quite a few places each winter, and impressed my wife in the spring with the bald patches! (our lawn is not very flat). Will set the blower shoes a little higher!
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 6:22pm |
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I have an MTD rider with a Berco blower on it,it's ONLY job is to blow the white stuff far,far away ! It works a LOT better than a rear blade on the D-14,at least for me cause the shops driveway/lot is 'reclaimed paved road bits.
It's too bad the boys at B&S don't use more or better loctite on the case bolts...had to swap engines this summer cause the bolts get loose, oil drips out.....sigh...
oh well....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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BrianC
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 8:33pm |
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Doesn't Onan have replacement stators?
I am just wondering if they support the engine.
I understand you are not wanting to get back into the
engine again. PITA I assume. Is it true we need to pull the engine to replace the starter also?
Edited by BrianC - 11 Nov 2016 at 8:50pm
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macvette
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Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 10:36pm |
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Yep, new stator is $299.00! My mini alternator cost $60.00.
I think the engine would have to be disconnected and at least raised to get at the starter.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 6:40am |
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yeesh, I've bought complete riders for less than $299 ! I tend to 'borrow' what I need,store what I might need in the furure, then toss the remains into scrap bin(4 cents a pound up here...)
Hopefully you can find room to fit the 'mini' under the hood, just be sure about direction !
Currently I'm trying to figure out a loader for one of the garden tractors I have.PITA is that the pump HAS to be driven using a lovejoy, NO side load( IE pulley and belt) allowed.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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macvette
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Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 9:53am |
Most of the owners that have already done what I am going to do have gone to a smaller size battery to keep the mini under the hood. (one modified his hood to keep his big battery). That could be a downside?, but other owners have said that it has worked for them. At least one of the owners lives in MI. and said it still works for him in the winter in an unheated garage when he starts and goes out to blow snow.
On a related comment of yours, I have been looking for an L 12 loader to put on my B-110. Don't know if I will ever find one, tho! Hope you can figure out how to get the lovejoy to your loader pump. Put one on a motor once that didn't allow room for any other type of connection, and was very pleased with the result.
Edited by macvette - 13 Nov 2016 at 9:57am
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ac720nut
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Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 10:16am |
Guys I did the alternator route and have it documented on simple tractors. I used a 450 amp lawn battery and allowed all the room I needed for the small alt. Am going to put one on my 720 as it quit charging last time out,and do not want to pull engine to replace stator. I'm unable for some reason to post picture here but if someday I do I'll post the build here.
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TREVMAN
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Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 2:17pm |
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Just a tip, but I have found a battery for a Honda civic gives room. It is tall and narrow, and has lots of cca, hth, Trev.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 3:34pm |
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51R...... battery number, probably same as the CR-V of the wifes...
also fit into a propane forklift I once had......
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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macvette
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Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 5:00pm |
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Thanks guys.
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BrianC
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Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 7:27pm |
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I don't think I have seen a picture posted here of an external alternator. Would be nice...
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ac720nut
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Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:20am |
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There are pictures on Simple Tractors and Micheals Tractors
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AC720Man
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Posted: 19 Nov 2016 at 3:26pm |
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I restored a 720 I puchased that caught on fire by a bad center bearing on a mower deck. The dry grass caught on fire along with years of grease and oil under the tractor. Guy had a fire bottle close by and put it out. Damage was done, wiring harness, voltage regulator, stator, rectifier all toast. Insurance co totalled it. So I bought it from the dealer. Totally stripped it, made a new wiring harness, and replaced all bad components. 11 months later and lots of hours in it, I have a beautiful functional 720. I don't recall the stator being over $150 from jacks small engines. They have good prices. I would go back stock before hanging one out the side. Just my opinion.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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macvette
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 12:25am |
Got the stub shaft from Lloyd in MI., put it on front crankshaft after a few modifications, ( appears all 620 front PTO set ups are not the same!), got the mini 1 wire alternator mounted under the hood, new group U1 battery in and wired up and tied down and started tractor - first time in over 2 years that I will have my 620 generating its own electricity - NOT!!!
Alternator doesn't work! Tried different wire from alternator to battery, bought a new battery charger that has an alternator check feature as one of the tasks it can do. Hooked it up according to directions, NO OUTPUT from alternator.
Contacted the ebay seller via ebay contact form, so who knows how long this may take to get resolved.
Stay tuned - the story isn't over yet! - and it's snowing tonight. At least tractor is back together, so if I have to use it now I can.
Edited by macvette - 23 Nov 2016 at 12:27am
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ac720nut
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 5:14am |
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Sorry to here, hope Bob or John were able to help
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 6:16am |
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macvetter
I have to ask WHY didn't you just go to local caryard and buy an alternator instead of the ePay thing????
You should be able to get a proper wiring setup from Google,if you ask right or contact Steve @B&B or post the make/model info here... I have lots of free time..
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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macvette
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 3:16pm |
Jay - Wanted to have a mini so wouldn't have to alter the hood. Besides - new is always better, right? LOL!
Looked up wiring for one wire on Google, and I do have it wired up correctly. Even put extra ground wire from alternator case to battery, without any difference in result.This was suggested by Bob on Simpletractors.
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ac720nut
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 6:57pm |
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Merle do you have access to another alternator? I would go to local wrecking yard and see if they had a cheap one to try, apparently yours is not working or the rotation is not correct for your setup I'm not real electricaly minded but just a thought.
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macvette
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 7:14pm |
I looked at the way the cooling fins were angled inside before I mounted it, and it is rotating the correct way, as long as this alternator pulls air thru the alternator the way all the others that I have are made. I mounted it the same as all the rest I have seen on the 620/720 tractors.
Will check with a salvage yard to see what a small used unit would cost me. Still waiting for seller to indicate next course of action.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 7:58pm |
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Your going down a path I haven't been before. Can only help with stock setup and testing. Sorry to be of no help.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 6:27am |
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I keep thinking I should build a simple 'test jig' for gennys and alts. A 2by12 with a 1/4HP motor and a 3" pulley on it.Some angle iron to slide a long bolt through to hold the altrnator and a small vbelt to connect to motor.Use a rachet strap to hold the alt to get belt tension.Add wires to ammeter,small battery and then turn on the motor.
This 'bench tester' would run about 1725-2000 rpm( whatever the pulley ratios are) and be cleaner and easier than mounting alt in tractor....and it is warmer in garage than outside now !
yup, another 'project'....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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macvette
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Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 7:59pm |
Got new alternator today, and refund for my inoperative unit. Had to do minor mounting alterations for new unit, and wired it up. Measured with voltmeter across battery with engine running - AND I HAVE A WORKING ALTERNATOR! What a relief!
Ammeter still only shows discharge, but this may be because the stator connections are disconnected, so there may not be a way for the + voltage to find its way back to the ammeter. This, however is a very minor problem compared to what has evolved up to now!
Thanks, guys for all the help and ideas.
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mnoonan-NEWI
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Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 9:26pm |
 macvette wrote:
Got new alternator today, and refund for my inoperative unit.Had to do minor mounting alterations for new unit, and wired it up. Measured with voltmeter across battery with engine running - AND I HAVE A WORKING ALTERNATOR! What a relief!
Ammeter still only shows discharge, but this may be because the stator connections are disconnected, so there may not be a way for the + voltage to find its way back to the ammeter. This, however is a very minor problem compared to what has evolved up to now!
Thanks, guys for all the help and ideas. |
Merle, sounds like your having a good week getting everything to work. Could you email me a picture of the final alternator setup? Thanks, Mike
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AC CA, Ferguson TO-20, Ford NAA, M-M BG, AC #3 Mower, SC Plow, PH Digger, AC 720's with Ark 700 loader & Brantly Backhoe, "Mini B" w/flathead Ford V8
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ac720nut
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Posted: 30 Nov 2016 at 7:56am |
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Glad you got it working, yes pictures to
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