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Three phase to single phase

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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Three phase to single phase
    Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 8:18pm
Local ag center obtained a Vulcan commercial oven from one of the county schools recently. Can these be economically converted from 3-phase to single-phase? The building has a 3-phase panel but it is not close to the kitchen.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 10:12pm
the simple way is to use a new VFD.. Variable Frequence Drive ... You put in 240v single phase and get out 240v 3 phase ........ Need to make sure your oven runs on 240v.... If it is 480v, your out of business.

check on the VOLTAGE and the AMPS on the name plate and will get more after that.


Edited by steve(ill) - 02 Nov 2022 at 10:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2022 at 10:14pm
You can also go OLD SCHOOL and use a set of capacitors to simulate the 3rd phase... but still restricted to 240v input / output.

being that it is commercial and a OVEN.... im guessing the AMPS are going to be TOO HIGH to do this efficiently ......... and voltage may well be 480v... so no go.


Edited by steve(ill) - 02 Nov 2022 at 10:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 6:23am
It could be cheaper, maybe a LOT cheaper, to run 3 wires from the panel instead of 'converting' to single phase.

The BIG question is what power ( volts and amps ) does it need ? If same voltage as panel, then only a current (amps) issue.

 One 'cheat' I saw years ago was using 3 runs of 14/2 NMD for a temporary 3 phase feed that's probably still being used today.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 6:29am
When convert 3-1 even on phase converters designed to, end up with amps loss, heating elements use a lot of amps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 6:40am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

It could be cheaper, maybe a LOT cheaper, to run 3 wires from the panel instead of 'converting' to single phase...


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If I have access to 3-phase in a building I want to use it.
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Dusty MI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty MI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 7:41am
Most 3 phase are 240/480/277 volts, you most likely need 120/240, if that is what's  needed, you will need a transformer, probably not worth it.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 5:53pm
also... the reason for going to 480 volts is it takes half the current as a 240v circuit to get the same POWER  ...... and by going to 3 phase, you cut the current even more in comparison to the same voltage single phase system..

3 phase / 480 volt supply will use a LOT SMALLER WIRE ($$$ saved) as compared to running 240v power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JW in MO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 7:15pm
If it's a Vulcan, chances are it's a wind oven which has a fan motor on the back, check and see if it's 3 phase, may not be if it's small enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigal121892 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 7:20pm
You wouldn't be able to use a VFD for this application, as the heating element would cycle on and off. VFD wouldn't tolerate that for very long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 1:20am
Okay, so the oven is currently wired for three phase, you wanna run it on single.

IF it's a common oven, it uses resistive elements to provide heat.  you do NOT want to run this on a VFD, and it would be a fool's errand to do so, because it is neither economical nor necessary to do so...

A sensible engineer would NOT have designed it to REQUIRE 3 phase... they'd only do that to make for a convenient connection for a building that provided 3-phase, but a sensible engineer would have set up an interconnection panel upon which you could either rearrange identified wires, or move jumper links, to allow it to run on probably a half-dozen different voltages and phasings.  Before anyone suggests that the FAN MOTOR might be three-phase, I'll say yes, it COULD, but NO ENGINEER with a brain would have ever done that... they'd simply use a single-phase capacitor-start fan, and power it across one of the elements, so that it no matter HOW you do the interconnections, would always be running the proper voltage... and the proper direction.

What you need, is a wiring diagram for the oven, and I'll BET that if you find an installation manual for it, you'll find that diagram, and in it, a connection diagram for SEVERAL different power configurations.

Can you get one?  Take the covers off, and look-see if there's a diagram either glued to, or in a pouch inside... or web-search, call the manufacturer, etc.,...

If you get a doc, and don't know how to interpret it, send me good pictures of it, and I'll tell 'ya how to do it.

I'm POSITIVELY CERTAIN that, even if it was wired for 208, or 480, or 277, or 230... it'll run on a 120/240 single-phase.

As an example, the most recent electric oven doc at Vulcan, page 5, has this:


Edited by DaveKamp - 04 Nov 2022 at 1:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2022 at 1:27am
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2022 at 10:27am
Thank all of you for the replies and advice. I will pass this information along and let management make a decision. Since this is a county government operation it may take some time.
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Dakota Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dakota Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 2022 at 10:49am
I bought a resterant 3 phase Grill for our church the deal was too good to pass downloaded the manual from the manufacture and connected it up according to the manual for single phase. I connected to a range plug so we could plug it in when needed. the heat elements won't draw any more power than they can get. 
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