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this generation

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LouSWPA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: this generation
    Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 12:37pm
I took on the task of teaching my grandson to drive. YIKES! he is not stupid, straight A student. But.........where is the common sense? Can't maintain a steady speed, he is always behind then car, instead of slowly giving it gas when approaching a hill, he waits until he has lost 20 MPH or more (speed limit 45) before he takes any action. Crests the hill, starts picking up speed, and doesn't let up until he's well over the speed limit, or I correct him. Drifts toward the boundaries of the lane, and then, at the last minute, jerks the wheel. No concept of where he is supposed to be on the road. Took a right from a traffic lane, but instead of turning into his lane, he cut diagonally across it, across a turn lane and into oncoming traffic lane!!! Thank fully, there was no oncoming traffic.

I keep pointing out to get ahead of the car, instead of behind it, but he is struggling with the concept. I would have thought with the generation of "gamers" their eye/hand coordination would be much better than this.
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 12:44pm
yea... probably an EXPERT in a 2D game... Its the 3D that gets them confused !
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 1:21pm
They just never got the hands-on skills. When we were kids, we rode bikes around the city dealing with traffic. I don't think some kids now days even know how to ride a bike. We had go-carts, minibikes and snowmobiles and learned throttle and brake control and how to anticipate a situation. We started driving small tractors and moving up to bigger ones. We would have to drive a pickup across the field or out to the field. Dad and Grandpa taught us these things, but it was under orders of higher powers, Mother and Grandma. When I took drivers ed in high school we had a 4-cylinder, stick shift car. the first day of driving me and another farm boy were paired up for behind the wheel. We started the first day driving around the parking lot, it was a pretty big lot you could make a loop around. When we finished our first day the teacher says to both of us, I can see you boys have driven vehicles. Next class we can go on the road. Some kids didn't get to leave the parking lot for 2 weeks. We got shorted driving time at the end of the semester because other kids needed more practice. Still flunked my first driving test because of a stupid nervous mistake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 3:59pm
I had plenty of practice driving pickups, and grain trucks before getting my license. As was common in Wisconsin at the time, nearly all males were an automatic ‘fail’ on their first driving test. My older Brother actually did pass the first time, instructor told my Dad, ‘your son was so nervous, I didn’t have the heart to fail him, and make him go thru the test again’.
Me? That bastard failed me, said I drove ‘too much with one hand on the wheel’.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 4:14pm
Was Lapside driving Grandmother's 55 Bel Air at 9, was driving Field trucks at Greenville IL at 11 along with R model Deeres, been behind a wheel of some machine seemingly Forever and my skills show out.
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Hubert (Ga)engine7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubert (Ga)engine7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 5:17pm
My granddaughter was driving at 14; she wanted to drive my F250 so I handed her the keys and got in the passenger seat. She drove about 30 miles on back roads and did fine. At 15 she took a driving course called Brakes that taught skid control, recovery after running off the road, and collision avoidance all under controlled conditions. Don’t know if this course still exists but it was worth far more than the money and time expended. 
Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 5:37pm
Call me a very sick man, I actually enjoy teaching first-timers to drive...

Or ride a bicycle... or motorcycle... or waterski... or operate a passenger train... or pilot a boat...

Realize that when doing so, there's TWO 'comfort zones' that need to be broken:

First is that of the student... second is that of the instructor.

Learning to do something with machinery or tools happens in stages.  I can relate it best to learining morse-code:

AT FIRST, you learn and listen for dits and dahs, and turn them into letters and numbers.
 THEN, you hear the letters and form words.
  THEN you hear words (long and shortand abbreviations) and turn them into sentences.
    THEN the sentences become conversation.

The steps of learning are all about committing a part of one's direct attention into a subconcious process.  In learning morse code, one must listen through the noise for the dits and dahs of the station you want to hear (there's lots of others coming amids all the other noise).  Then you're listening to determine the speed and rythm of what's being sent, and deciding wether the sound was a short (dit) or long (dah), and wether the space between was a new character, or a new word.

Eventually all those actions become comitted to subconcious processing... with that done, one's brain can use the immediate attention to arranging words... then sentences, etc.


When one learns to operate any machine, there's similar concurrent activities that must be learned.  Once seat set, belted in, mirrors adjusted, engine started, check the gauges, lights on, parking brake released, the act of driving a has steering, brakes, throttle, that includes lane position, speed regulation,  as well as navigation, traffic awareness, obstructions and hazards, periphery and distraction management, signalling, pedestrian avoidance, rules of the road...

And if there's a manual transmission involved... clutch, shift, RPM, downhill and uphill shifting, starting on hills (rollback management)...

Each of these is a necessary step, gotta start somewhere, get that part licked, then move to the next.  Patience.. and a big empty parking lot.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 5:50pm
Hubert, I taught all four of my children to drive. One of the things i did with each of them was to find an empty (large) parking lot in the winter taught them how to do donuts and power slides in the snow. Probably not as good as the class your GD took, but I do believe it was worth the effort
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 7:07pm
I've been driving tractor since I was so small I had to slide down in the seat to push in the clutch. Staying on the rows to cultivate or just to cover a field with a disc taught me spacial conception. When I got to be 16 going for a drivers license was a piece of cake.
 
  Today's kids aren't allowed to do anything growing up. then they are expected to be able to do something as they approach adulthood.   


Edited by PaulB - 28 Nov 2024 at 7:09pm
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 7:26pm
Good thing it’s thanksgiving
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 7:31pm
I have let my grandkids steer the Gator side by side since 5 or 6 years old. They stand between legs, I RUN THE GAS, and brake. they just steer.  They only got to do it were several months. The 3 oldest can now reach the pedals (the oldest just turned 14, how did that happen) . Grandpa has some control Wink issues but they know not to fast and we do Ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JW in MO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 8:52pm
Like you Lou, I taught 4 kids to drive, but I started them out on a mower with a steering wheel.  When we switched to vehicles, I then started them on gravel roads, only 1 of the 4 had issues getting the tires in the tracks.  Also, taught all 4 in an Isuzu Trooper, my left hand had a firm grip on the emergency brake in the beginning.
Maximum use of available resources!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 9:58pm
I took my driver's test in my pawpaw's 92 F250. It's what I'd been driving for the past couple of years so it just made sense. My girls have learned in an 03 Suzuki Carry mini truck driving around the farm. It's a little strange to learn in. It's right hand drive and a 5 speed. Pedals are in the right order but the shifter is on the driver's left. But at 13 and 10 they can both hop in it and go. I agree with Dave. It's fun to teach youngsters new things like driving. Quite rewarding when the "lightbulb turns on”
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wispitfiremike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2024 at 11:04pm
If the kids can drive that thing with backwards controls they won't be the problem out there. I hear many kids don't even want to get their license at 16 any more. Can't imagine that when I was younger. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acguywill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2024 at 9:42am
I don't understand it either. Turned 16 on a Monday got my license on Wednesday and that afternoon after school I hauled grain to the feed mill and a load of feed back with dad's 3 ton. 2 days later me and one of my little brothers were skiing 250 miles from home after dad gave us the pickup and his gold card and told us to have fun. Our parents never really taught us how to do anything, we were just expected to figure it out and get it done. Learned to do things by watching them do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2024 at 9:42am
Taught my two kids to drive a 66 VW bug. They can both drive any thing on the road now. Tried to teach my wife to drive a stick. Finally said there you go you're on your own. But I admit all of them can shift tractors better than I can. Maybe good teacher. I think you need to explain the ahead and behind in a different way maybe.
Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2024 at 10:33am
He's got his mind on everything except driving. Hopefully that changes soon. 
 I feel for you, taught my live-ins 2 daughters to drive, what an experience. 
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2024 at 4:18am
Been struck by the mentality of some youth am in contact with. Not wanting Dr Lic as is ‘Too much Trouble’ no car, ‘expect’ things delivered not walk in bought and no desire to learn any functional use of any form of tooling. Someone had to place those values in their heads, very sad people to have done that to the current generation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2024 at 7:03am
Amazon , and others, offer next day delivery, for free , so WHY bother going to the store ? !! This HAS to be a HUGE factor.

Car insurance is the other one !  Up here, single, 22 yr old  female, 1 minor accident will pay $4,000 per year to insure a 2014 Rogue ( no collision) I know as I pay for my granddaughter. She's a GREAT kid,has a job,money in the bank and yes, says please and THANK YOU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2024 at 8:32am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Amazon , and others, offer next day delivery, for free , so WHY bother going to the store ? !! This HAS to be a HUGE factor...

Indeed.
Since my Wife and I have retired, we do an inordinate amount of Amazon shopping. We live ~20 miles from town, and while I would prefer to patronize 'local' businesses it often makes more sense to have stuff delivered directly to the house rather than make a 40 mile round trip which also involves a certain amount of risk in addition to fuel, wear & tear, etc.

Example: A couple of weeks ago we were in town early in the day and stopped at the 'local' Autozone to get a distributor cap and rotor for my pickup. When I told the sweet young lady behind the counter that I needed parts for my 85 Ford "Three hundred six" she said "All I can find is a 302". I explained that it was a 300 cubic inch six cylinder but they may call it a 4.9 liter, which she quickly found and said they didn't have the parts in stock but could have them there that evening. I politely said that would require an extra trip to town so I would just order it from Amazon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2024 at 8:44pm
You all ain't thinking right. Next generation will be in vehicles that drive themselves!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dennis J OPKs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2024 at 10:01pm
Self-driving vehicles followed by a demolition derby involving electric vehicles-cars & 18 wheelers, what could possibly go wrong.  Don't forget those self-driving tractors & combines.  Anyone watching the Buffalo snow game?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2024 at 11:05pm
Self-driving vehicles...  Mark my words here:

In the future, there will be accidents where... vehicle 'safety features' like 'Collision Avoidance' and 'stability control' will take away the driver's capacity to react to circumstances... and the end result will be that damage, injury, and death will occur.

The 'driver' of the vehicle will be held responsible, BUT... because of the 'safety systems' taking away command authority of the vehicle, will have been stripped of all capacity to take a 'better' measure.

How could this be?  Here's an example:

You're driving down a highway, you see clear road, but you're coming to an area that has a patch of black ice.  A deer runs across the road just as you come ONTO the ice.  YOU recognize that attempting to dodge the deer would fling you out of control and smash you into a minivan full of children... so instead, you let up and coast, and graze the deer as it stumbles on the ice.  Deer escapes with a bruise on the hip, there's a fur tuft in your fender, but you're still rolling and everyone is fine.

Now you're in your new car, approaching the same black ice.  Car sees the deer, goes into Collision Avoidance Mode, slams on brakes and attempts to steer around the deer.  Car slides, dynamic stability starts hammering on one front wheel, you go sideways, biff the deer, peg the aft corner of the minivan, sending it into a sideways spin, into the end of a guardrail, cutting the car in half, killing 3 of the five, you go off the other side into the ditch, and roll over.

You get ticketed for 'failure to maintain', and then get slapped with a civil suit for 3 counts of wrongful death.

Who is at fault?  Easy:  The car manufacturer.  At the time of the loss of control, it wasn't the driver's hands or feet driving- it was the 'collision avoidance' and 'dynamic stability' features.  The Manufacturer of the vehicle TOOK AWAY control from the driver, and as such, liability for the result falls on the Element In Control.

All the computer power, all the radar, ultrasonic, wheel speed, ambient temperature, and gyroscopic sensors in the world cannot do what the human driver does naturally-  Observe the environment, and see the future.

The most important skills that ANY learning driver should develop, is the ability to maintain situational awareness, and adapt.    An excellent example above, was taking kids out to a big flat parking lot, and teach them how to perform a donut, a controlled drift, and to be able to modulate between under and oversteer conditions... and FURTHERMORE, be able to do it regardless of wether the vehicle is empty, or full... respond, and account for change of center of gravity- that's balance amidst roll, pitch, and yaw.  Learn to drive a car sideways on ice, and you can do it on wet pavement, or on dirt, or in mud, on gravel... and you can make the transition from one surface circumstance to another.

Computers don't see deer coming up from ditches, and they do NOT understand the concept of sacrificing a deer, or a squirrel, or a skunk.  It will NOT recognize that ONE deer running cross the road means ANOTHER is right behind, and a third coming up after.

Worst off, a computer will NOT make the ultimate sacrifice decision:

A golden retriever, with a 20-foot leash, dragging a 6 year old girl... is different from a Deer.  When the dog runs across the road, and a panic stop risks a rearend, you're supposed to biff the dog.  What if there's a little girl being dragged behind? There's two answers-  Make the stop, and use your car to protect the girl from the next one coming behind... or...  Sharp turn into a tree, and pray the airbags save you and your passenger.

Computers don't do that.  They'll save the car, and sacrifice the girl.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2024 at 4:33am
New semis have steering ‘disconnect’ systems or over rides, side monitoring collision avoidance keeps the wheel from being turned into a accident. Several new ‘Auto Braking’ applications are on the roads, sense a auto or other mechanism too close and applies brakes, speed reaches electronic limiter in a coast and applies the brakes. Jerk tail cuts in front and it also applies the brakes. Works fine until doesn’t. One massive EMP, solar or manmade and all this junk is fried.
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