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Wildthing 
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Location: Austin, TX
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 Topic: Starting HD6G after 15 years sitting
Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:02am |
Hi,
Am working on Fiat Allis HD6G. 1963 *I think*. Been sitting for 15-20 years.,
Anyhow - got it started. Runs like a top. Hydraulics did not work. Checked the Filter and it was full/swollen (metal flakes among other stuff  , among the milk chocolate <water in it>). Installed a temporary filter and proved briefly to myself the hydraulics work (Worked fine -little sluggish but prolly working the air out).
PROBLEM - Cannot find the Hydraulic Filter Cartridge anywhere. The dimensions on the one that came out are: H 8 3/4"; OD 3 1/4"; ID 1 1/16" Looks like the canister could hold a larger OD and longer unit <spring at bottom has headroom> Not sure if one in it is a bastard sized one, the wrong one or what the right one may be. ...and why don't ANY of these manufacturers allow search by size?
Any Guidance?
I just got a CarQuest 85828 in that was 'supposed' to fit, however is only 6" long or so. Baldwin has a PT181 kit (out of stock) but the taller filter *might* fit. The seals look right. But the smaller filter doesn't match with my intake filter which is a threaded on unit. Somewhere think I found the Dims (PT8395) and it was 18" long which I do not think will work. Have an inquiry in to "Killer Filters" on the size of the 100-1916 which is a replacement for the Allis Chalmers 3019695 ... not sure this is the one I am looking for or not.
...just don't think I can run without a filter with metal flakes in the system...
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:59am |
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Google Baldwin Filters, should come up with Applications Associates as a supplier. Was ONLY place I could source all of my 7G needs.
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Wildthing
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Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 7:21pm |
Hmmm....looked up Applications Associates Filter and was referred to a answering service. Left my information. Some one on phone calls today referred me to WIX filters as the only place you can search filters by size (74 pages of filters in the 8" - 9" range). Ordered and cancelled this one: WIX R91C10CRM Replacement #: BFS-FC81
Ended up finding the PT181 kit (for Allis Chalmers Crawler Excavators) at "AGCrazy" and ordered it from them. (Only after I found a old Baldwin product guide that specified the Dimensions on the larger filter in the PT181 kit as OD 3 5/16, ID 1 1/8, H 8 7/8. Per measurements that should work in mine).
Am skittish as I have two filters sitting here that were supposed to go to an HD6G ... just not mine I guess....
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 7:52pm |
Went to Baldwin Filters Google Search, went HERE
https://www.baldwinfilters.com/portal/site/Baldwin/menuitem.f6e556a1cf41b967f2ae22c04256d1ca/?vgnextoid=7aa8a15580756610VgnVCM10000025651dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN
Then under applications
Took all of minute and half.
Edited by DMiller - 17 Oct 2020 at 8:01pm
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 8:18pm |
Under Applications associate Bring page up find the Baldwin brand icon click on it, Go to Off Highway Applications click on that, directly under Off Highway Lookup is a red highlighted Click Here click on that and fill out the drop downs for Application.
Same filter list.
Edited by DMiller - 17 Oct 2020 at 8:18pm
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Wildthing
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:01am |
 DMiller wrote:
Went to Baldwin Filters Google Search, went HERE
https://www.baldwinfilters.com/portal/site/Baldwin/menuitem.f6e556a1cf41b967f2ae22c04256d1ca/?vgnextoid=7aa8a15580756610VgnVCM10000025651dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN
Then under applications
Took all of minute and half.
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I sense you are exasperated.  . Sorry - Read On..
This was EXACTLY what I did first AND why I decided to ask around. Something is either different in my HD6G or different/wrong in the Baldwin stuff.
If you check the two Hydraulic filters in the above list neither of them fit my Loaders 'Return' application. <Maybe the dimensions on Baldwin are incorrect? Dunno> PT 8395 - Baldwin Spec has it at 18 1/16" in length <well beyond my 8"-9.25" min/max measurements.> P194-HD - Spec shows this at 7 5/8" in length (Probably is for the air intake side?)<anyhow, Below my Return side minimum of 8" : at least in my machine>
Sorry - this was why I decided to ask around. Something is either different in my HD6G or different/wrong in the Baldwin stuff. It is readily apparent that my HD6G cannot accept a 18" filter.
Also - viewing the above discrepancy - buying any 'Kit' for the loader is also suspect (as they don't put the dims in there either, just pictures ). So I turned to this forum for help.
Went and measured my machines Max and Min this morning for the ID OD & Length.
Spent 3-4 HOURS on this again today: Taking min and max and searching for PN's that work with dimensions is pretty sketchy - though WIX has a pretty good front end...Wix is the ONLY supplier I could find that provide dimensions in a searchable method - rest of the world seems to depend on make and model (Which was already blown up pretty well by the above and the cross referencing from supposed original PN's that got me two filters that are too short, again dimensions not provided, just application). Wix - 75 pages of dimensions with flow numbers...and nothing that fits perfectly...but a few that might work in a pinch.
Eventually : I turned up a PT181 kit 'in stock' at AgCrazy <Mostly the kit is "unavailable"> and through several hours of subsequent searching landed a old scan of Baldwin Filters "Product Guide" that specified the Larger Element in thePT181 kit as OD 3 5/16; ID 1 1/8"; H 8 7/8". <=verified that THIS should fit.
Just a warning to anyone that would order straight off the above Baldwin list- IT MAY NOT FIT YOUR APPLICATION.
Thanks.
Edited by Wildthing - 18 Oct 2020 at 12:05am
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DMiller
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 5:21am |
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Need to get the s/n off your unit
See what series it actually is
Is it a power shift or stick with wet clutch
And then also could have had a later model hydraulics tank added for convenience of parts
The machine is over 50 years old where much could have been altered
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NEVER green
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Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:03am |
Maybe buy a Power Director spin on filter off 7060 and plumb that on???
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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CAL(KS)
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 7:41am |
where is this filter located that you pulled? 6g doesnt have a suction filter just a strainer. it does have a return filter and breather filter inside the tank. otherwise it may be a user install and who knows
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Wildthing
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 2:39pm |
Sorry, I am vaguely familiar with this machine. I remember I drove it briefly as a kid moving it from point a to point b for the previous owner of the place. My new neighbors want it gone, were going to scrap it - I volunteered because I have all kinds of stuff I could do with it at my place (have tractor with bucket...but that is not the same). I am NOT a mechanic - but I grew up that if you ever wanted to do anything with equipment your first 1/2 day was fixing it/getting it running. Dunno if it is worth it or not - few hundred dollars in stuff so far <mostly batteries that I can use elsewhere anyhow, solenoid was not expensive, fluids are getting costly>. Each stage has had it's challenges - Starting - Now Hydraulics - Next Drivetrain... something serious goes and it is over. Am hopeful on drivetrain as it had to be parked where it is sitting as it is backed in and lined up with a Massey Ferguson 1100 (...MF1100 has a 15foot elm tree growing out of it). Filter in question is in the box to the right of the Driver. Filter is below the 6 bolt port towards the back of the crawler <Port has dip-stick on a access cap threaded into it>. Inside the port is this filter set down into a deep(8" to 9") aluminum cup that has a spring and washer around an outlet stem in the bottom. There is an inlet on the side of the cup that aligns with a hole in the metal sidewall. It is the 6 bolt Port that IF you have open and you start the machine you get a hydraulic geyser...    As far as the "Power Shift" vs "Stick with wet clutch"...dunno. There is a drive Clutch lever coming out of the floor to the left of the driver <engage by pulling back>. I remember shifting was goofy - clutch out and you had to throttle it down until it almost died to change gears with the shifter. ...then there are the left and right drive clutches that worked in concert with left and right brakes. Next time I get over there will look for the SN on the dash or back right of the drive. IF it gets to running/useable maybe breakdown and buy the manuals for it off EBAY - right now wanting to limit expenses as more spent the harder it is to walk away from it (Have you ever realized it was "Over" as you are bench-pressing some part for the fifth time?). Way it runs though...just makes you grin...if the rest of it works like that, this thing is built like a brick poophouse. ->I am comfortable the correct filter will be in the PT181 kit that is <hopefully> in transit (dimensions match the one that came out). ->I spoke with Baldwin on PT181 Kit today- they cannot tell me what the PN of the larger filter is alone. Customer Svc could not order PT181 kit. Baldwin Rep also said they had not yet translated over the dimensions for the latest website. ->Just for the record - got an email back from "Killer Filter" on PN 100-1916 - DIMS are: OD=3.31" ID=1.19"&1.13" Length=8.88" <Should work, might order one> I am not sure how the metal pieces in the filter or the milky color of the hydraulic fluid will impact things but any major repair is the end of the Crawler. Drive system is next once hydraulics are proven out...
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DMiller
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 2:43pm |
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The kit comes as assembly Only, my 7G used that same kit, the smaller filter for the vent path side.
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Wildthing
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 5:17pm |
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I just ordered the Killer Filter unit as well ($35 with shipping). With the metal flakes/pieces in the system want to get it cleared out then switch to another new filter and see how much is accumulating <metal could have accumulated in there years before it was parked -or- be WHY it was parked...dunno>. So I don't need the whole Kit every time, just the filter, hopefully this one is a good replacement.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 5:37pm |
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The long filter is on left side tank and the short filter is right side under the breater and the ALLIS HALMERS kit is 3019695
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 9:43pm |
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I used to get all filters for them from NAPA. But its been 5 years since I bought any.
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Wildthing
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Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 8:21am |
gemdozer wrote:
The long filter is on left side tank and the short filter is right side under the breater and the ALLIS HALMERS kit is 3019695 |
Yes - Careful though - the Allis Chalmers kit for some reason the above 3019695 kit cross-references to Donaldson Hydraulic Filter Cartridge- P164270 Which is 18" in length...like the cross-reference on the Baldwin site.
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Wildthing
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Posted: 26 Oct 2020 at 10:33am |
Update - Got the hydraulics back together this weekend and the crawler seemed to move on it's own just fine (Drives and clutches worked)... So I drove it the 40 minutes home - <cross-country>. It worked GREAT!
3 issues now:
1. Diesel leak somewhere front of engine - soaked the skid plate.
2. Top of Hydraulic box was soaked by the end of the ride. Need to figure out what is going on there - maybe rebuild/replace o-rings on the top <controls> unit...?
3. Wondering what kind of maintenance I need to do on the tracks/drive systems. They were not accepting grease in the zerts (found 2 each side) so wonder if I need to dig into those... Will be much easier with access to water hose and able to wash the dirt and years out of the machine...see what I got..
...otherwise it was awesome!!!!!!!
BTW - The Killer Filter kit was identical to the Baldwin PT181 <with the seals and everything>. ...so it is a good alternative (much cheaper too)
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