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jaybmiller 
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 Topic: so EVs are the future, now ??
Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 8:41am |
makes for a GREAT read ! Just ONE family on an emergency trip....
sigh..... up here the fedguv is forcing 1 in 5 vehicles sold in 2026 to be EV. Not too sure HOW that'll work
oh I know..
another friggin DISASTER !!!
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 9:17am |
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If your driving to town and back and charging in the garage, it might be OK... If your traveling cross country and think this is a GOOD IDEA.... You got what you deserve.. Time wasted, money wasted, and a miserable trip.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dr p
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Posted: 24 Dec 2023 at 12:34pm |
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they fired the chairman of the U.N. council on Electric Vehicles because he said there shoulds still a "significant place" for fossil fuel vehicles. What did the song say " I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused"
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 6:02am |
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Sad these machines have a place in commuter large metro places just as noted NOT on Interstate travel or reliance required machines as do fail regularly seemingly more often than Petro fueled.
Around here another issue is how much is electric charging. Are a few odd offbeat places with chargers but the outlandish fees they garner are shutting down efficiency. Was told a charging system around Rolla
Is getting a $20 Connection fee then $1.10 a kwh for the power consumed, a rather costly value against electrical rates of $.14 kwh. Costs to purchase maintain and improve as needed for the charging station. Seems the meth heads like to hack away the power cords for copper.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 6:20am |
It's too bad the guv didn't force a mandate (aka LAW) that ALL public access chargers, those NOT in a persons home had to conform to ONE 'standard' or 'universal' style connection. Similar to gas nozzles and OBD-II connectors, allows everyone to connect and get electrons, anywhere, anytime. A quick read,it seems Tesla's connector has almost gained that position,though there's a NA version and a EU version......
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WF owner
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 8:10am |
I have a friend that owns two Teslas. Last winter (February), he told me he was planning a road trip to Georgia, about 900 miles each way. I asked him how he was going to do it. He told me that he would be starting out with a fully charged battery. In about 3 hours, he would stop, hook up charger, use the rest room, get something to eat, and be back on the road in about 20 minutes. He explained that he could charge to about 85% in 20 minutes, but a "full charge" takes hours. He had all of his stops planned out. When he returned, he said his trip went exactly as planned. I. like the rest of you, hate to think of the change, but it's obvious we can't keep going as we are now. Do we want to use up every bit of fossil fuels, that take thousands of years to produce, so there are none for our grandkids? I think a total switchover by 2035 is a little ambitious, but we definitely need to have a goal. I'm betting our ancestors had feelings similar to ours when the "horseless carriage" was replacing horses. I remember my grandfather telling a story that a neighbor told him his house would burn down if he had electricity installed. We all, including me, hate change, but the change is inevitable.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 8:16am |
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There going to have make some changes because of all the fires from the batteries charging and also need to make the batteries easier to replace or everrything will be tied up with dead battery vehicles
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 8:54am |
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Nothing wrong with CHANGE.. Its the way of life.. ALWAYS changing... The problem i have is FORCE CHANGE BY THE GOVT... and PICKING WINNERS AND LOOSERS by the GOVT... We dont need SUBSIDY and FREE CHEESE to FORCE something on the public.. If it is BETTER, then people will BUY it... If its NOT BETTER or ready for prime time, then WAIT.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 9:56am |
I also believe that EV's have a place in some people's lives,,,,for daily trips to the grocery store or even family visits on trips of LESS than 100 miles, go home, recharge battery and wait for next trip to grocery store. Cross Country trips are just not ready for EV's,,,,YET!! The Federal Highway Administration publishes info on EV's but they manage to leave out some pertinate info for Cross Country Travelers. The Tesla Model S has the highest battery range of 405 Miles,,,,at a car purchase price of up to $95,000. The Tesla Model 3 has a battery range of 272 miles at a car purchase price of $42,000. The battery RANGES are figured with NO other battery ongoing usage like radio, cassette player, Movies, and even Air Conditioner or Heater,,,just you and your car!!
Don't know bout Ya'll but I kinda like the Air Conditioner on HIGH while traveling across Arizona in the HOT Summer months,,,and listening to the radio too,,,,, 
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 10:13am |
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Change is inevitable but a common sense approach is necessary.
Why can’t these have replaceable batteries like a fork lift.
Run to the charge station and swap for a full battery and be rolling in 5 minutes.
They would have to be full service stations.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 10:21am |
dang Dj.. 'cassette player' !!! yer showin yer age ! Though I do have AM/FM/Cassette for my '97 F150 ! Currently it has AM/FM ONLY in it.... ON/OFF switch is busted in the other and ONLY 1997 radios will connect to wiring harness.
Have to wonder IF EVs are so dang GREAT, why CITY HALL doesn't use them? Why local delivery guys don't use them ?
BTW , Ford's E-F150 will NOT go 260 miles on a full charge. Ratings are for driver only, no passengers, no cargo, no trailer, no 'other stuff' on(heater,a/c, radio, etc.)
Also 80% charge is considered a 'charge' in all literature AND the rating is based on 70*F summer weather NOTHING about 20-40% penalty for driving in WINTER !
I'd actually buy an E-F150 IF it was regular cab, short box as that's the 'style' I need,in Oxford White of course.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 12:27pm |
The free market should propel change, not the governmennt. while we do alla this "changing" the chinese turn on 1 more coal fired plant per month... 
Edited by DiyDave - 25 Dec 2023 at 12:28pm
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 4:34pm |
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heck India has a GREATER population than China now ,so please add in THEIR pollution too !!!
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 4:39pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
Nothing wrong with CHANGE.. Its the way of life.. ALWAYS changing... The problem i have is FORCE CHANGE BY THE GOVT... and PICKING WINNERS AND LOOSERS by the GOVT... We dont need SUBSIDY and FREE CHEESE to FORCE something on the public.. If it is BETTER, then people will BUY it... If its NOT BETTER or ready for prime time, then WAIT. |
X2
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 4:43pm |
Thad in AR. wrote:
Change is inevitable but a common sense approach is necessary.
Why can’t these have replaceable batteries like a fork lift.
Run to the charge station and swap for a full battery and be rolling in 5 minutes.
They would have to be full service stations.
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I've discussed that with others. Once the battery is standardized, I'd invest in convenience outlets with that service
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 5:35pm |
Someone actually does that ! I think there's spots for 2 or 3 slide in battery packs. Overall 'tech wise' it's brilliant, same as those battery snowblowers that can have 2,3 or 4 batteries in them.The 'problem' would be actual 'ownership' of a battery,though if they're leased THAT solves warranty and ownership 'issues'.One battery might be enough for daily, in city use. Add a 2nd for longer commutes, a 3rd for long distance travelling.
The real problem is YOU don't have to go back to Tesla or Ford or ... to replace the battery, so 'they' lose a lot of money.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 9:32pm |
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Part of the problem in INTER-CHANGE-ABILITY ... there is none... Its like the battery powered drills.... Dewalt, Milwaukee, Craftsman... they all use different size, different sockets, different voltages................. Has to be an SAE STANDARD !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jvin248
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 10:05pm |
.
It's a paradigm shift.
If you want a long distance vehicle for vacation, rent it like leasing a seat on an airplane.
Electric has a lot of problems, but how many people can drill oil in their back yard? Can they build an oil refinery in their garage? They can install solar panels to charge the vehicle. Retired people can sell excess electricity back to the power company and supplement social security when they drive less.
Several EV brands are planning $25k EV models. What's the lowest cost ICE vehicle these days?
Tesla model 2 Aptera Elio EV
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KJCHRIS
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Posted: 25 Dec 2023 at 11:47pm |
I'm hoping my current vehicles will outlast me. Most of these EV's won't take me from my house to farm & back to house without needing recharged. Much less go on parts run to some salvage yard. I left my pickup outside last night, it took almost an hour to get the 3/16" ice off windows after scraping the snow off, how much % of battery will that take? What are those living in rented houses & apartment buildings to do for a place to charge these things.?? |
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DiyDave
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 4:40am |
steve(ill) wrote:
Part of the problem in INTER-CHANGE-ABILITY ... there is none... Its like the battery powered drills.... Dewalt, Milwaukee, Craftsman... they all use different size, different sockets, different voltages................. Has to be an SAE STANDARD ! |
I disagree. EV's are only on the market, now, because of government subsidies. the tool makers you list all compete for market share, on their own. Let the EV makers do the same! 
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. Ronald Reagan
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:30am |
so Tesla model 2 MSRP is $42K for that bag of coins I can buy a Ford F150,XLT,reg cab, sht box, 2wd and have LOTS of coins left over(30%) as
As Tesla is in US$, Ford in Canuck bux.
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Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 6:36am |
so Tesla model 2 MSRP is $42K for that bag of coins I can buy a Ford F150,XLT,reg cab, sht box, 2wd and have LOTS of coins left over(30%) as
As Tesla is in US$, Ford in Canuck bux. 'basic' Tesla dies at 180 miles, Ford keeps on running.... low to ground Tesla means it a young persons ride can't carry  in it either,unlike a pickup can !
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 7:01am |
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What was the driving force to standardize OBD II. As EVs become more mainstream I believe consumer demand could bring interchangeability if charge times don't improve
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 7:41am |
The 'industry' ( mechanics really...) pushed for it. having ONE connector type .meant Ford mechanics could easily diagnose Chevies, so shop makes more money. Even though it's the same connector, there's 3 or 4 ,or more actual electronic interfaces on the pins.The 'scanner' figures out what the vehicle has then connects.Having a common base of 'error codes' was crucial for obvious reasons.
Sadly builtin OBD-II isn't in most vehicles today. Kinda surprised that the car doesn't call the dealer to say 'I'm misfiring on plug5,I need service now' oh yeah, update the master database of all things stored too.....send the guv the info, so they can issue a ticket for pollution too !
sad thing is preliminary OBD-III specs had that . Would 'scan' 8 lane highway and 'flag' any 'out of spec' vehicle, or speeder of course.....
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DMiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 9:02am |
One of the other pushes to OBDII led to the current systems that read much as the Semi's Do, requires a Laptop system to review what is actually happening where a Display Code means a Fault in multiple different directions on one Sensor, not necessarily The Sensor itself.
Sadly the Diesel systems have gotten so far advanced the systems will actually overlay a Bypass to some consideration in as few as 10 miles driven or 20 minutes operational time on Non Highway. Been Told by a Cat Tech, the current ECMs on their machines do that, really difficult to catch once been overlain by the processor 'Thinking'.
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WF owner
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 9:14am |
My opinion is, right now, since EV's are basically in their infancy (except for Tesla), the technology is changing so fast that EV's that were built a couple years ago are "old technology" and have very little value. Several years ago, we looked into putting "homeowner" solar panels in. A friend, that worked in the industry, advised us to wait, because of the fast-evolving technology. Right now, I think the same applies to EV's. My wife was very interested in ordering a new hybrid SUV. The sales manager, at our local dealership, where we have bought our last several cars and trucks, advised her to stay with conventional if she was buying. His advice was to lease if she wanted a hybrid. His reasoning was that hybrids depreciate more than conventional vehicles, mostly because of battery replacement cost on older hybrids. I guess the same advice would apply to EV's.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 10:33am |
yup, ask the sales guy to show you the REAL costs in replacing the battery. Not just the battery, but the installation cost, the 'shop' costs, and of course 'recycling' fee. Big issue for me IS the 'recycling' fee..hmm..I pay YOU $25K for a new battery AND have to pay YOU 1,000s to 'recycle' MY old battery ? No thank you, I PAID for it, I'll keep it..make a whole house power plant with it.... I'm sure plans are on the Internet somewhere...
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DMiller
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 12:31pm |
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Caution of that Off Grid Dream, know of nearly NO Insurers will even insure a structure knowing has a LiIon Battery in it, or anything Lithium Based Battery for that matter.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 12:39pm |
You going to park a EV in your garage and go to bed ? To much of these battery powered stuff is exploding and burning the garage or shop down. I won't let any of my batteries plugged in and leave the building. Let alone plug in a car and go to bed.
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Dorix
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Posted: 26 Dec 2023 at 1:14pm |
I. like the rest of you, hate to think of the change, but it's obvious we can't keep going as we are now. Do we want to use up every bit of fossil fuels, that take thousands of years to produce, so there are none for our grandkids?
Electric has a lot of problems, but how many people can drill oil in their back yard? Can they build an oil refinery in their garage? They can install solar panels to charge the vehicle. Retired people can sell excess electricity back to the power company and supplement social security when they drive less.
How long before the Earth runs out of Lithium, Nickel and other minerals that these batteries, and solar panels use? How many people have a Lithium mine in their back yard and the lithium smelting process sounds more complicated than refining crude oil, both of these also have environmental concerns.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, I also believe EV's have there place, perhaps even eventually replacing the combustion engine, as these minerals can be recycled, however I think we are a long ways off from being able to say EV's can keep us going, as they are dependent on limited natural resources as well.
Edited by Dorix - 26 Dec 2023 at 1:15pm
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