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DMiller 
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 Topic: Right to Repair, RTR
Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 4:51am |
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Current AG machine producers are still fighting this, are now adding Subscription requirements to access Electronics and to clear codes on newer machines much as Auto manufacturers are. RTR is fast becoming a joke on the Public.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 6:02am |
The cynic in me says the guv is behind this, as it's about control and money. They allow the company to control you and the guv gets free money ( taxes )
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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powertech84
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 7:53am |
RTR has always been a joke, from the very begining. As someone who's worked in the industry for 20+ years, it was easy to see all along that what people thought they were getting, never remotely stood a chance of happening.
Another case of be carefull what you wish for.
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DanWi
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 8:47am |
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They can say they are giving access, but it seems like the software is on some kind of timer that is set to expire. Because when they come out to repair things it seems updates are required. And if you want to mix brands it seems they don't like to talk to each other.
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DanWi
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 9:03am |
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Simply changing sensors or anything requires a computer update. Not just plug and go.
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HudCo
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 6:35pm |
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sounds like everyone wants to lay down and let the manufacturers do what they whant . i have to keep on working poeples stuff for a long time ithink this stuff needs to go toa global obd2 system also
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thendrix
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 8:22pm |
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RTR, the reason why worn out $500 tractors and equipment bring $2,000 at auctions. We're going to have to replace a tractor at some point and I'm dreading it. Now my "big" tractor is a 1999 Kubota M6800. Very simple. Problem is, my big tractor ain't quite big enough
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 01 Apr 2026 at 9:09pm |
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Tractor companies just like all companies are in the business to make money so as long as people keep buying enough tractors for them to do well financially they are not going to give up something like repair business for free.
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WF owner
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Posted: 02 Apr 2026 at 7:32am |
 Gary Burnett wrote:
Tractor companies just like all companies are in the business to make money so as long as people keep buying enough tractors for them to do well financially they are not going to give up something like repair business for free. |
I agree! And in the tractor companies defense, they have been forced to spend millions of dollars on their unique technology. I can see why they don't want to share it.
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tbran
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Posted: 02 Apr 2026 at 7:51am |
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There is an underlying issue here missed and somewhat hidden. The big time operators realized they were paying $150 or more per hour for a Deere tech who stayed out on their farm for 6 to 8 hours or more /week. They would simply call the tech and say come to work for us - this saved the farmers money for now they had a tech plus when not working on broke down stuff , they could do other farming stuff. Just buy a laptop computer. This led to a huge brain drain of techs at the dealerships. Therefore big D said nope - can't work on our modern stuff - we will firewall protect it - with the somewhat false statement of not allowing customers into company secrets in programming.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Ed (Ont)
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Posted: 17 hours 39 minutes ago at 4:12pm |
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Similar problems in automotive industry. I have a midrange snap-on computer and do a bit of work in my small shop. Got it mostly to do a bit of my own stuff and a few friends. Been in the trade for a long time and still enjoy doing some small stuff. Now in addition to monthly subscription to snap on we have to pay $60 per year to manufacturers to read that brand. Some are still free. GM so far is free. So I have basically given up! Will have to pay the fee for whatever I own. Not blaming the corporations. Just the way it is!
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Orangeade
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Posted: 12 hours 41 minutes ago at 9:10pm |
Here is a different slant. I've spent a career working with industrial equipment. Had some customers hack into software, make changes then a couple things would happen. 1 - They mess something up and demand our techs fix it. "We did not do anything!" Waste everyone's time and finally figure it out we'd write most time off to save a customer. 2 - Worst case they change something and a safety feature is disabled or parameter changed and employee gets hurt or worst I heard of, killed. Guess what, lawyers always zero in on manufacturer. Another ton of time and money. Needless to say, we did a better job of locking access down. Companies are probably getting tired of it and this is the best way to protect themselves. Wait until someone hacks into the logic for autosteer and tractor does something far off intentions. The liability is going to fall squarely on manufacturers for either doing something wrong or not having it secured enough.
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AC720Man
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Posted: 12 hours 27 minutes ago at 9:24pm |
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I’m all for a man being able to repair his equipment himself, but that last comment drives home a valid point. We live in a world full of sue happy lawyers. I can understand the companies wanting to protect themselves while under warranty. But after that, the owner should be able to repair but the manufacturers should not be liable if something goes wrong once the warranty ends.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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WF owner
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Posted: 2 hours 4 minutes ago at 7:47am |
I guess the bottom line is when you buy a tractor, combine, loader or any other piece of equipment with a computer controlled engine, you are going to have to be aware that you are going to have to deal with the manufacturer for certain computer related repairs. My biggest concern would be how long are the manufacturers (Deere, Case IH, New Holland, Kubota, etc.) going to maintain computer support.
Since AC has been out of business for 40+ years, we see a lot of parts that are no longer available. Deere, in my opinion, is one of the worst at discontinuing production of parts that they deem are no longer profitable (maybe that's why they are still in business).
As these computer-controlled engines get older, are the manufacturers still going to maintain the computer programs or are they going to abandon the program and then let aftermarket companies have access?
Today, it's not uncommon to see 40, 50 or 60-year-old tractors still earning their keep. I'm betting the computer-controlled engines of today will have a slot shorter lifespan.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 1 hour 60 minutes ago at 7:51am |
1 - They mess something up and demand our techs fix it. "We did not do anything!" Waste everyone's time and finally figure it out we'd write most time off to save a customer. 2 - Worst case they change something and a safety feature is disabled or parameter changed and employee gets hurt or worst I heard of, killed.
i would need the DETAILS for that statement... I know with the AUTOs, you can buy a small meter to TAP into the COMPUTER system.. You can then SEE THE CODES that cause the problems... More sophisticated "METERS", let you change some parameters for minor systems, or readouts on the dash... They DO NOT let you change major things like STEERING, ABS, etc... You might be able to change a shift point to make the transmission shift a little quicker, but VERY MINOR CHANGE..... Dont know of ANY METER that will allow you to change MAJOR FUNCTIONS of the software... That is LOCKED into the software...... seems to work fine with the AUTOS.. Dont know why construction equip / farm could not do the same thing.. All MOST PEOPLE are asking for is to have access to the CODES to determine what the PROBLEMS are... NOT to CHANGE MAJOR FUNCTIONS in the software.
Edited by steve(ill) - 1 hour 55 minutes ago at 7:56am
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 1 hour 48 minutes ago at 8:03am |
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A METER that reads CODES... does NOT allow you to HACK into the Computer and change Software...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 1 hour 48 minutes ago at 8:03am |
'tuners' are what the 'rolling coal' guys use to modify the engine parameters. Someone figured out the 'access codes' to get into the software and change IMPORTANT data. Enter bad data and you can destroy your engine.
'readers' , usually allow 'errors' to be displayed and of course turn off the MIL/ engine light. Some will show realtime data.
Agree we all NEED to have easy access to display ERROR messages.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 1 hour 39 minutes ago at 8:12am |
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agree... if you have the ability to "HACK INTO THE COMPUTER" and "CHANGE SOFTWARE" that has absolutely NOTHING to do with READING CODES.... Some can HACK into a system without anyone from the Software Company agreeing or giving them ANY ACCESS... There are "SOME" that HACK into Microsoft, the BANK, US GOVT sites every day... and they didnt get or need ANY HELP from the Manufacturer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 1 hour 36 minutes ago at 8:15am |
jaybmiller wrote:
'tuners' are what the 'rolling coal' guys use to modify the engine parameters. Someone figured out the 'access codes' to get into the software and change IMPORTANT data. Enter bad data and you can destroy your engine.
'readers' , usually allow 'errors' to be displayed and of course turn off the MIL/ engine light. Some will show realtime data.
Agree we all NEED to have easy access to display ERROR messages. |
Well, that's an antiquated way to display error codes. Just add a menu item on one of the myriad displays already available. Better still, display the actual error message rather than a dumb code. Historically, displaying codes was partially due to limited memory and display capabilities. That's rarely the case nowadays.
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WF owner
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Posted: 1 hour 31 minutes ago at 8:20am |
When I see hackers getting into the "secure" software of major health care companies, I have no doubt that they could easily hack the software for the newer diesel engines.
They demand ransoms from these huge corporations. Can you imagine something similar with the diesel engines at planting or harvesting time?
Edited by WF owner - 1 hour 30 minutes ago at 8:21am
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 1 hour 25 minutes ago at 8:26am |
When I see hackers getting into the "secure" software of major health care companies, I have no doubt that they could easily hack the software for the newer diesel engines.
YEP...and they can do that TODAY, just like they do the Health Care or Bank... that has NOTHING to do with giving ERROR CODES..
If my car is running rough and i connect my meter , i get a P0304 code telling me that #4 cylinder has a missfire.... Probably a bad coil or could be faulty injector.. it does NOT allow me to change the fuel injection timing, or the volumn of fuel injected, etc... Just an indication of what MIGHT be the problem.
Edited by steve(ill) - 1 hour 22 minutes ago at 8:29am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 1 hour 22 minutes ago at 8:29am |
The main reason auto companies do NOT have builtin diagnostics displayed is MONEY ! They want you to come to them and get a $100 'scan' to see what's wrong. Heck the newest SCAM by them is to require you to PURCHASE subscriptions to access 'heated car seats' , ApplePAY, and other feature you BOUGHT, after 1-2 years.
Unless you tractor and combine have remote access ,like OnStar. hackers can't get to the computer.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Posted: 14 minutes ago at 9:37am |
jaybmiller wrote:
Unless you tractor and combine have remote access ,like OnStar. hackers can't get to the computer. |
I'm not so sure about that, Jay. A couple years ago, when we were vacationing in Florida, I got a check engine code on my 21 F-350 diesel. The readout said 58 miles to empty, and I had stopped at a rest area to refill, but we used the rest rooms first. When I tried to start it, it would crank but wouldn't start. I called my dealer (in northern NY state - 1200 miles away). The tech told me that my truck was showing low fuel pressure. I walked over to the fuel island, bought a 5-gallon fuel container and poured it in the truck. After cycling the prestart procedure, a couple times (the same procedure I use when changing fuel filters), the truck started immediately.
I assume they were able to access the computer through Android Auto (through my smart phone), but they definitely could access the computer without being "plugged in".
One of my neighbors has GPS and "hands free" cell use in the cab, so I assume there is some sort of connectivity.
Edited by WF owner - 13 minutes ago at 9:38am
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tbran
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Posted: 11 minutes ago at 9:40am |
We fight this constantly. IF the system is smart enough to give a code, then make it easy for the customer to look it up and have the peace of mind as to what the problem is. There should be a screen that states i.e. "Fuel Rail pressure spike occurred excess number of times. Call dealer." So simple to program. (This one cause by shorted battery) As to hacking into the system, #1 it is really hard and #2 If someone is determined and knowledgeable they can hack into anything - ask the Pentagon. My belief is RTR is for the dealer health protection over all else. Deere put a tiny safety wire over the ends of the A and P pumps to prevent customers messing with the fuel with a wrench and screw driver .........
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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