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Restoring a 1940 Allis Chalmers Model B

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2018 at 3:02pm
I never read how the motor turns over ?  If it is tough, you might consider removing the spark plugs and putting 6 oz of diesel or transmission fluid/ acetone in each cylinder.. Let it set for a week and soak down around the rings and loosen them up.. crank the motor over a few times with the plugs out and let the penetrant work around........ remove the valve cover as Dick said and spray / oil the valve stems..... when your ready, crank the motor over faster and pump the penetrant out before installing plugs, or stick a rose gun in the hole and suck the stuff out...
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PickyPotatoPosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2018 at 3:06pm
Sorry, forgot to report on that. I haven't pulled the valve cover yet, but I did pull the plugs and give it a few gentle spins to see how everything felt. In neutral, with the clutch locked open, it felt good and rotated very well. I'm thinking I'll slap the carb back on, and change at least the engine oil, then after checking the valves I'll try to start her up and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2018 at 6:48am
You can add a qt. of enamel thinner to your oil and let it run for a while. Watch temp. and oil pressure. Anyway the thinner is good for the seals to soften them up and in many cases will stop the leak. It will also wash the inside of the engine so that it drains out cleaner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PickyPotatoPosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:20pm
Well this weekend was a bust. I cleaned and rebuilt the carb during the week, and planned on returning to the tractor and attempting a start today. But due to my bad memory, I managed to forget the carb, right in the garage! Which is no small drive away...

I decided to pull the rear wheel and attempt to replace the inner tube. I must say, it's the hardest tire I've ever tried to work on! After 2 hours and a few beers, I decided that it might be easier to take it to a garage and have them break the bead on the wheel/rim. But after a few calls, I can't seem to find anyone with a big enough machine!

Do you guys have any advice for doing this myself, or where I could possibly take it?
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:07pm
https://public.fotki.com/DickL/tractor_parts/removing-tire-from-rim/

This is one way I have used. I have used the dozer blade as well as the backhoe along with a bottle jack under the truck trailer hitch. I used the 50 ton hydraulic press on a couple of the 24" rims holding the rim and tire up with a fork truck. Lots of different ways.

Edited by Dick L - 10 Mar 2018 at 10:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 2:02pm
There's a tool made for breaking them down called a bead breaker. It's basically a slide hammer on steroids. It's about four feet long, has a real slick spoon. that you place against the tire at the bead area. Wait just a minute and I'll look them up and get back to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 3:25pm
Picker did you get the PM I sent?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 3:32pm
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 3:34pm
This is a better link I think.
 
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 3:37pm
Just click the continue to amazon button.
 
Win 10,  they gotta make everything difficult.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ErikR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 11:34pm
Oh does that bring back memories.... I worked in a heavy equipment shop back in the 80's. We used to break down truck tires. Our slide hammer/bead breaker was just a little different, it had a heavy sliding pipe on the outside. The ones shown above have a heavy rod inside the tool..... same principle, different execution....

If anybody is unclear how they work, here's an in-use pic..... 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 6:22am
The slide hammer type bead breaker works good on tires that the tires have not been on for 30 years. It all depends on the condition of the tire, bead and rim.
A tractor tire service would have a clamp type that works quick. When I was farming I had the tire service truck come out in the field and repair tires with fluid. They don't ever work up a sweat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PickyPotatoPosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 7:43am
Thanks for the replies! I believe I've seen one of those sitting around a relatives house, just didn't know what it was for. I planned on calling a Case dealer today and seeing if they could do it, but would still prefer to do it myself(part of the pride of doing the work of restoration myself). I'll have to call around and see which uncle was hiding that. And I guess I'll still quote the dealer and see what they say.

Edited by PickyPotatoPosse - 12 Mar 2018 at 7:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 8:28am
If you have a 2 foot long piece of a 2"X 6" or 8" and a block or blocks about 6" high you can lay the 2" by on the tire against the rim with the blocks at the outer end of the 2"by. Set a bottle jack on the 2" by next to the rim with something heavy over the jack like a trailer hitch, drawbar of a large tractor. Something hard to lift.
I have seen some use a chain wrapped under the tire over the jack. When the jack goes up the 2" goes down against the tire and blocks. As more pressure is placed with the jack the tire breaks away from the rim. You don't want the block as quite high as the tire so you flatten the tire some as the 2"by goes down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PickyPotatoPosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 1:18pm
Hello all. I know it's been quite a while since I've posted any updates, but hopefully I can still get some advice.

I managed to get the tire all squared away, it's been holding pressure for a few months. The new problem I have is fixing the left hand brake. This is an earlier model tractor, with the hand levers instead of foot pedal. The problem is that the bolt welded to the band(that connects it to the lever) was sheared off. I managed to get all the guards off, and took the snaprings off, but I can't get the pins out. Would applying heat be my best bet?

The next question is; I'm taking a fair amount of parts off throughout the process of fixing everything. I think it would be best to refinish the parts now, instead of putting it together and taking it apart again later. What's the best way to strip off two layers of lead based paint? And where would one find the orange paint specific to Allis Chalmers, or at least very similar?

Thanks for all the help
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 5:10pm
Ther is a gap at the ends of pins on the inside. You can break it out to use a punch to drive the pins out. After the pins are out I drill all the way thru the hole. I bought an air hammer that will get the pin out a lot faster than a punch and hammer. Make sure you remove the hair pin clips first.









Edited by Dick L - 09 Nov 2018 at 5:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 5:20pm
These 2 videos should be of help. They are doing a model c but they are the same.
 
 
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 6:36pm
You can fight getting the old bands out with a wire if you like. I found it after doing a couple tractors that it saves time and swear words if you remove the final drive from the transmission. You can get at and clean crap that is sure to be there and make the removal of the old band easy and even easier to put the new one back in.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 9:08pm
The real question is...

Did you get the engine running?  If so, how well?  How's compression, did you give the carb and magneto a rebuild?

Perhaps I overlooked, but i didn't see where anyone answered, but what you showed for an exhaust pipe... is about one-third of an oval-body muffler...  The rest probably rotted loose and someone pulled it off, probably threw a bucket or big can over the top.

My first Allis... was a '48 B, and it was stuck TIGHT.  I spent about six weeks working on it 'till it finally loosened up... then I refilled it with fresh oil, made sure all the valves moved properly, and fed it some fuel while cranking with the starter on a 12v battery.  It filled the shop with blue smoke from all the oil still in the cylinders (from soaking), but it woke up... giving me a heckuva shower in nasty oil, rust and dirt from the exhaust manifold...

It was a blast! Cool  I LOVE waking up engines that were left to neglect for years... ah, to hear the sound and fury...  to stand in the fire and oily-rusty-rain...
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PickyPotatoPosse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 9:16am
Strangely enough, the pin holes are already clearanced all the way through both walls, so maybe the previous owner drilled them out already. I was trying to avoid taking the final drive off, but if that's the best way, then I'll give it some serious thought. Like I said, the problem is getting the pins OUT. They don't want to budge! Looks like heat is going to be my best friend

It looks like the muffler is just a piece of perforated pipe held in place with one screw. No baffles, no screens. "muffling" isn't in its job description.

I didn't attempt to fully start her yet, because once I do, I'll of course be trying to take her for a ride. And I would like brakes before I do that!(plus I still need to clean the rust out of the tank) But I cranked it a few times with just a small spray of ether, and she popped merrily. I'm sure once I clean the tank and put it back on, she'll start up eagerly. I checked the valves, magneto, spark plugs, etc, and all seems to be in running order. I'm hoping after the holidays I'll have a chance to get back to working on it.



Edited by PickyPotatoPosse - 16 Nov 2018 at 9:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 9:26am
Heat, penetrant, and a air hammer if you have one. Good to hear she pops off for you.
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoughMade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 9:28am
Originally posted by PickyPotatoPosse PickyPotatoPosse wrote:

It is not in my plans to get money out of this; I plan on keeping it for the span of its' or my life, which ever ends first(Probably mine, knowing how they built things back then)

Unfortunately it's being kept away from my house, so I haven't pulled the plugs yet or started tinkering. I would have to agree that wrenching on things is more my style, but this is a great opportunity to learn a new skill.

Seeing as this is tractor is 88 years old, I assumed I would have to dive all the way in, replacing shims, bearings, bushings, etc. I guess that's why I am a bit confused as to why everyone says to get it running first, then decide how deep to go. But I won't argue with experience, if that's the route that everyone suggests, then that is the route I will follow.

But if I decide to rebuild the whole engine(which seems like a good idea), does it pay to get it running first? At any rate, I think the easiest thing to start with is slapping a new tube on the rear tire, that will make moving it around a whole lot easier. Now, just have to figure out the tube size...

Thanks for the great advice so far, this Forum is more help than I could have imagined!


I have a 1951 B that was my Dad's.  It sat in a barn and the bores of 2 cylinders got surface rust on them and locked it up tight.  I could have stripped everything and done a full rebuild, but I decided to see if I could get it running.  I cleaned the carb (replaced no parts other than gaskets), pulled the head, used patience and chemicals to get the rust out of the cylinders and freed up the engine.  I hand-lapped the valves, but other than that, nothing deeper.  I drained sludgy oil from the pan and replaced it with fresh, replaced the transmission fluid and guess what- it fired up and ran smooth.  Eventually, I put a rebuilt magneto on it, but other than that, no deeper mechanically.

It has good compression, decent oil pressure, no odd noises.  It drips a few drops from th both the front and rear main seals after running for several hours, but I can mow my 2.5 acres about 8 times before I have to add 1/2 quart of oil.

So my question is- why rebuild unless you know you have to.  I probably will eventually, but no need now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by PickyPotatoPosse PickyPotatoPosse wrote:

Strangely enough, the pin holes are already clearanced all the way through both walls, so maybe the previous owner drilled them out already. I was trying to avoid taking the final drive off, but if that's the best way, then I'll give it some serious thought. Like I said, the problem is getting the pins OUT. They don't want to budge! Looks like heat is going to be my best friend

It looks like the muffler is just a piece of perforated pipe held in place with one screw. No baffles, no screens. "muffling" isn't in its job description.

I didn't attempt to fully start her yet, because once I do, I'll of course be trying to take her for a ride. And I would like brakes before I do that!(plus I still need to clean the rust out of the tank) But I cranked it a few times with just a small spray of ether, and she popped merrily. I'm sure once I clean the tank and put it back on, she'll start up eagerly. I checked the valves, magneto, spark plugs, etc, and all seems to be in running order. I'm hoping after the holidays I'll have a chance to get back to working on it.




As some of my pictures show I have had some bad rusted ones and never used heat on the pins. I put shims between the housing and the band loop to make them solid to make the pin to move without the band moving and cause a cocked condition which tends to hold the pin tight in the loop. I used a bunch of WD40 on the first pins I took out. Later on after I bought an air hammer I left them dry. I had a person load their final drives and bring them to me. I was told they had tried and didn't think they could be taken out and wanted to trade final drives that I had the pins out of. They had already broke out the inside so after a visit I pulled the air hose out to their trailer and had the pins out of the final drive in minutes.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoughMade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Dick L Dick L wrote:

The slide hammer type bead breaker works good on tires that the tires have not been on for 30 years. It all depends on the condition of the tire, bead and rim.
A tractor tire service would have a clamp type that works quick. When I was farming I had the tire service truck come out in the field and repair tires with fluid. They don't ever work up a sweat.

Well, that's the smart way to do it.  Clearly, this means that this was not the way I did it.

I took the rim of the tractor and tried all manner of techniques to break the bead...

...Then I got the bright idea to lay it under the hitch on my truck, placed a bottle jack under the hitch with the bottom plate wedged as far into where the tire meets the rim as possible and pumped it up until it almost lifted the truck off the ground...almost. The bead then separated at the jack and I was able to break the rest of it by working around with a large tire iron.  I worked up a sweat.

It was considerably easier the second time I did it...on the same wheel... because SOMEONE thought that the wheel would still clear the mower frame with the rim flipped around to make it a bit narrower...but that guy was wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2018 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by HoughMade HoughMade wrote:

Originally posted by Dick L Dick L wrote:

The slide hammer type bead breaker works good on tires that the tires have not been on for 30 years. It all depends on the condition of the tire, bead and rim.
A tractor tire service would have a clamp type that works quick. When I was farming I had the tire service truck come out in the field and repair tires with fluid. They don't ever work up a sweat.


Well, that's the smart way to do it.  Clearly, this means that this was not the way I did it.

I took the rim of the tractor and tried all manner of techniques to break the bead...

...Then I got the bright idea to lay it under the hitch on my truck, placed a bottle jack under the hitch with the bottom plate wedged as far into where the tire meets the rim as possible and pumped it up until it almost lifted the truck off the ground...almost. The bead then separated at the jack and I was able to break the rest of it by working around with a large tire iron.  I worked up a sweat.

It was considerably easier the second time I did it...on the same wheel... because SOMEONE thought that the wheel would still clear the mower frame with the rim flipped around to make it a bit narrower...but that guy was wrong.



Back when I had a 310 case dozer and a backhoe I used them both on old rusted on tire beads. I went on a dumb buying streak that lasted about ten years buying old junk tractors that I thought was cheap to make me a prize winning tractor puller with parts I could salvage. I used the bottle jack also when I was not at the farm. At the link I used the rear tire of my Oliver 1650.

I used the loader bucket to break the bead on a tire on the tractor to get the tube out of the tire. Go to youtube and type in betterlem68 if you want to see more sections of the video. My camera was set to cut off at 5 minutes. I had to read the instruction a bout a doze times to figure out what was going on. Real fast learner huh.




https://public.fotki.com/DickL/tractor_parts/removing-tire-from-rim/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImL0ilPUxcQ&t=88s
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