| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
DrAllis 
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21880
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(1)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 24 Aug 2025 at 11:06am |
|
Not necessarily. But if the cam timing to the crank was off, it probably wouldn't ever run regardless of where the ignition timing was. Late camshaft timing would result in the exhaust valves getting smacked when the piston was coming up and the exhaust valves aren't yet closed. This catastrophic failure of the valve train can only be from incorrect valve guide height. The cam/crank timing was correct. How could 8 valves be stuck in their guides?? very doubtful.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1289
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2025 at 11:11am |
 55allis wrote:
I was meaning if the cam time was off the distributor could be off too… |
With the head off you can easily verify the cam timing without a degree wheel simply by putting the #1 piston at TDC, then look at the cam lobes. At the tail end of the exhaust stroke both lobes will be upward with the overlap split because the exhaust will be just closing and the intake will be just beginning to open.
If the cam timing is off enough to matter then it will be obvious to the naked eye.
This is probably not where the problem lies with this engine, but it is so easy to check that it is worth doing just so that you know it is correct.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8619
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Aug 2025 at 12:37pm |
|
If the guides and caps aren't interfering and cam timing looks correct and guides weren't stuck about all that's left is rocker adjustment. So wait a minute...tall heads use short stands,short heads use tall stands...do we have short head short stands?
|
|
55allis
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Griswold Iowa
Points: 960
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 9:31am |
|
Does anyone have any pictures comparing the two?
|
|
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
|
|
55allis
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Griswold Iowa
Points: 960
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 9:39am |
Here is a picture before I removed it. 
|
|
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 21880
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 10:00am |
|
I wonder if he had the rocker arm stands upside down ?? Long side goes down to the cyl head.
|
|
TedN
Bronze Level
Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
Points: 82
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 12:55pm |
|
In that picture it looks like #4 intake is the only valve that is closed. I wasn't aware of two different pedestal heights that SteveM mentioned, but I was able to find a picture on Facebook of a D17 engine, and it looks like the pedestal mounts are about 1/2" taller. It also looks like there is a color change on the studs about 1/2" above the nuts in your picture, like maybe that is where the nuts used to be. I learn something new every day.
Ted
|
|
190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1289
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 8:09pm |
DrAllis wrote:
I wonder if he had the rocker arm stands upside down ?? Long side goes down to the cyl head. |
I believe that would do it 
|
|
Mikez
Orange Level Access
Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Location: Usa
Points: 8707
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 8:39pm |
Yea looks like the rockers are just about up against tray. How strong are the rockers after that.
|
|
55allis
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Griswold Iowa
Points: 960
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Aug 2025 at 9:54pm |
 Here’s a picture of the rocker currently… I never changed anything from when I pulled it off.
|
|
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8619
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2025 at 11:05am |
|
I can't tell from pic. Is head about 4in thick? Should be on a 17.
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1289
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 26 Aug 2025 at 11:11pm |
TedN wrote:
... I wasn't aware of two different pedestal heights that SteveM mentioned, but I was able to find a picture on Facebook of a D17 engine, and it looks like the pedestal mounts are about 1/2" taller... |
The only thing I have heard about regarding two different pedestal heights involves the early WD heads vs the later WD and the WD45 head; i.e. the 'Short' head and the 'Tall' head, which requires different pedestals.
According to three different online advertisements selling rocker pedestals for the D17 they measure 1.945" tall.
|
|
TedN
Bronze Level
Joined: 30 Apr 2025
Location: Central WA
Points: 82
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Aug 2025 at 12:38am |
Not sure how to do links but I was able to download the picture. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks different to me. Keep in mind I don't have much familiarity with D17s, I am only going by what I see in the pictures.  Ted
|
|
190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
|
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
Points: 8506
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Aug 2025 at 6:51am |
Ok guys, I am on the edge of my seat (ok the couch) and the popcorn is almost gone! I need Dr Allis to tell me a little more about valve guide placement. No I am not a engine builder. No I know nothing about valve guides. (I have a machine shop do the head work on any engines I am working on which is not very many) But it sounds like if the guides are incorrectly installed this stops the valve movement and then can bend the pushrods on the other end of the rocker? I am a little confused but I am old and easily confused too. Humm This is like a who dunit murder mystery. Let's all take a trip to 55 Allis land stand around drink coffee or beer and noodle and lay hands on this awesome restoration. Sorry for being sarcastic on the restoration thing. I do a little work every couple years on my own stuff. I make many mistakes. But I do not call any of these old tractor projects "restorations"! That word is for folks that have way more skills than I have. But I must say I was not impressed with the very first exterior picture of this finished restore D17. Sorry maybe my expectations are too high. And yes shiny paint does not mean it will run. I understand that. But if a customer is going to pay good money for 7 years of fiddling the details should be slightly better inside and out. Just my rambling 2 cents. Not trying to step on anyone's toes here. I hope this tractor can be completed for the owner and that they get many years of enjoyment with it. Makes me want to find the old D17 and fire it up! Regards, Chris and Cheryl I just started another batch of popcorn. I like the wrong head or wrong rocker arm combo idea for some reason? :) Maybe the butler did it! I also wish Don Bradley was able to chime in on this engine situation too. RIP Don! Just thought of another one for the team! Could the push rods have been purposely pre bent so that they made the valve train look like it functioned. Ok that idea is stranger than aliens building the pyramids!
Edited by Sugarmaker - 27 Aug 2025 at 6:57am
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1289
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Aug 2025 at 8:28am |
55allis wrote:
Valve guides do not appear to have been replaced…
But they don’t seem to be even…
Plan is to go ahead and rebuild the head, going to local engine shop tomorrow.... |
It would be interesting to know what the rebuilder has to say about the guides
|
|
55allis
Orange Level
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Location: Griswold Iowa
Points: 960
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Aug 2025 at 12:42pm |
|
Talked to the shop who has the head and he hasn’t looked at it yet…
Said he’d try to look at it today or tomorrow.
The valve guides look original, rust is still on the bottom side. So I don’t think it would be that.
|
|
1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD45
|
|
Les Kerf
Orange Level
Joined: 08 May 2020
Location: Idaho
Points: 1289
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Aug 2025 at 2:33pm |
Sugarmaker wrote:
... :) Maybe the butler did it!...
Could the push rods have been purposely pre bent so that they made the valve train look like it functioned. Ok that idea is stranger than aliens building the pyramids!
|
I'm beginning to think that way myself  Reckon maybe it was Col. Mustard? 
|
|
