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jaybmiller 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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 Topic: removing subpump
Posted: 05 May 2022 at 5:51am |
neighbour has no water since last saturday plumbers come out 2 days decide 'tork arrestor' is jammed, say she needs new well ($30K)!! pump is 50' down drilled well ,8" casing anyone know HOW to remove pump ? I'm thinking either a hook to snag the rubber arrestor and yank or cut/slash it so pump an be pulled out. I can't understand WHY the original guy 20 years ago put the arestor in...seems like a really ,really bad idea.
thanks Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
Points: 5637
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 7:07am |
The pump has a motor in in, and each time the motor starts and stops, the inertia of it changing speeds causes the pump to twist to one way, or the other. The start stop action can do all sorts of crazy things, from unscrewing the pump or discharge pipe segments, to wearing out the pitless adapter and fracturing a corroded pipe.
50 feet isn't a long way... and an 8" casing is pretty big... I'm suprised they're having a difficult time extracting it, but I'm not standing there looking at it. Modern tech provides some pretty cool tools to sort it out, lowering a camera for a first-hand look would tell a pretty clear story of what's up...
30K for a well? I'd hope that it was considerably deeper than 50ft... $600/foot is a bit high... either that, or you're in a spot in Ontario that's rock at the surface...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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fjdrill
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Joined: 13 May 2012
Location: Alabama
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 7:15am |
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Call a legit well service co. I put a many torque arrester on subs. Why an 8" casing for a 4" pump?
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 8:21am |
yeah it might be a 6", busy doing 100 things for 20 people and probably my eyeballs need calibration I never saw the 1st guys camera,just know he used a chain hoist, pulled 5-6' then nada..I assume poly pipe will stretttttttch a bit ! This was the local well known well guys btw..... I can't see 40' down the well so don't KNOW what's jammed up.... read some horror stories online though ...seems like them tork rubbers can be a real PITA
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Tbone95
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Location: Michigan
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 8:53am |
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$30,000 for a 50 foot well?! Holy crap!! We just put in one at 325 feet, new pump, new wiring, wiring trenched over to old switch and stuff, for a tad under $10,000. Wow.
Edited by Tbone95 - 05 May 2022 at 8:54am
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Kansas99
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Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 10:34am |
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If the casing hasn't collapsed and there's plenty of water in the hole I would assume they could slide another pump down the hole if they pull of or break the poly. I don't know why they would need a tork rubber if it's hanging on poly? I've got wells hanging at over 400 without tork rubber on poly even have some with thread jointed pvc with no tork rubber, only thing around here with them is inline shaft driven turbine irrigation wells, even have 6in sub irrigation pumps with 15 hp motors hanging on pvc without them. Just always make sure on a sub you have a nylon rope through the eyelet just in case.
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dee_veloper
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Joined: 12 Apr 2021
Location: USA
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 2:08pm |
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I'd call another well service and see if they can help. If not, at least get another new well estimate. $30k is a a shocker.
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 3:30pm |
The PITA is getting the OLD pump up as the tork is 'stuck', that's why I'm asking what anyone has done to free the PITA tork rubber. Only 'good' news is it's not my well BUT she's a GREAT neighbour and I get the feeling I'll get roped into the 'extraction' process.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 4:31pm |
If it sticks part way up, then drops back, thats a problem.... If it came up half way then STUCK and will not move... i would be temped to take 3-4 lengths of 2 inch steel conduit, screw together and poke down the hole and BEAT it back down and try to pull up again... If the poly and wire eventually break off, you might be able to slide a NEW pump down the hole with NEW poly and wire.... assuming you can BEAT the old one back to the bottom.... Need to measure the "water level" to determine possibility.
You got nothing to loose by spending $200. to do some testing .... possibly save drilling a NEW well.
Edited by steve(ill) - 05 May 2022 at 4:36pm
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klinemar
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
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Posted: 05 May 2022 at 4:38pm |
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We have a submersible pump at the bottom of one well as the pipe broke when pulling pump. Well service man tried fishing tool and anything else. Eventually drove the old pump and screen through the bottom of casing and hung a new pump. Pump had been installed for over 25 years. This well has steel 6" casing. We pumped well with new pump for quite awhile before testing water and using it.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 9:19am |
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3rd guy came today, $6500 to drill well... still need pump + hookup,so I'm thinking $10K total.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Kansas99
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Location: W Kansas
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 2:42pm |
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Jay, as anyone confirmed if the hole has collapsed and if not how many ft of water is in the hole? I think this is the first step before worrying about drilling a new well. If there’s plenty of water in the hole and it hasn’t collapsed you have nothing to loose by busting off pump trying to pull out or if you do shoving it back down the well and putting another pump on poly down the hole. Either way you’re going to need a new pump and poly whether they drill or not.
That’s what several of us are trying to say
Edited by Kansas99 - 06 May 2022 at 2:43pm
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 2:57pm |
well is 50' deep and from what I gather, there's 'stuff' between the tork rubber and the burned out pump, as well as 'stuff' on top of the tork rubber. I figure it's all 'bunged up soild' and all the chain hoist did was stretch the 1 1/4 poly pipe. yes, IF it was mine, I'd rig up 'something' to PULL HARD on the pipe,but it'll just stretch and since there's NO access to the pump ,or under the tork it's a PITA to figure out HOW to 'snag' the pump that's 40' down the 6" casing.
At the end of the day NOT my decision. The 85 year old guy still wants to try...sad thing is he's healthier than me ! between that and a whole house gut, tuesday should be 'interesting'.... I'd love to see the 'engineer' who thought up the tork rubber GET it outta this well !! $20 unnecessary POS has caused a $10,000 repair. oh well... thanks guys
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Kansas99
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Location: W Kansas
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 4:01pm |
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If you guys try and it breaks down off maybe rig something like Steve said and try driving it to the bottom if you say have 20 ft of water then try to slip new one down just have a good nylon rope tied to it. Unless the debris above the current one is a collapsed case then it’s a new hole so concrete will be the only thing needed down the old hole
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 8:23pm |
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one old guy living in a house dont use much water in a days time.. Dont need 500 gallons per day flowing in.... If the pump was broke off and pushed down and you had several feet of water above that ... would probably be enough makeup water per day for him ?
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shameless dude
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Joined: 10 Apr 2017
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 9:12pm |
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i lost the pump motor on my well a couple years ago. one well company said i'd hafta cut some trees out and move other stuff so they could get their truck in there to pull it. i told them it's only a 34 ft well, they said it didn't matter! i contacted another well company, they came out and looked, and one dude just pulled it up and out by hand. put a new one on and slid it back down.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 06 May 2022 at 10:08pm |
Rent a dam submersible camera and see what is going on down there for sure.
Had a well the cable rusted off from some clowns pouring acid down it to"sanitize" and had to pull it via the loop after snagging it with heavy rod and a Hook in the end. that was 48 feet down and the rotten cable end would get down between the pump and the casing. after several hours of jacking and pounding down, finally got it up. Some arse had dropped a cable clamp down on top of the pump when it had gotten put in... or some other foolish thing but after getting it back up, they were dipping the bottom and were getting sand in on top of the screen so the old guy Oscar Foltz said we musta split the side of the casing... so down went a point screen, cylinder and pipe and went back to a pump jack... which did not work that great because, it would pump the water out of the casing... shortly after that, neighbors in that community were drilling new wells too. We pulled the pump and I lowered a light down and... at about 36-40 feet, the pipe took an angle and the light disappeared out of sight. When the string got 'slack' meaning the light tied on the end no longer was being held by the string, pulled it up and it was dry. That was the last we messed with that well. Since then (30 more years) some of those drilled wells mentioned earlier have gone dry, and people had to drill deeper yet. What is funnier, little over a quarter mile away, theres a lake that is known not to have bottom at over 100 ft deep, you would think there would be some water table from that lake... since it is a spring fed lake and has water flow from farther up too.
Should be a way to figure out how to pull that pump up. Can't much worse than story above... Or maybe it could be. Good Luck. Get a camera down there and figure out the problem.
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JW in MO
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Posted: 07 May 2022 at 8:55am |
 shameless dude wrote:
i lost the pump motor on my well a couple years ago. one well company said i'd hafta cut some trees out and move other stuff so they could get their truck in there to pull it. i told them it's only a 34 ft well, they said it didn't matter! i contacted another well company, they came out and looked, and one dude just pulled it up and out by hand. put a new one on and slid it back down. |
We had to pull one for a customer, 325ft, hung on Yardley Super Golden Jet plastic with torque stops. It was 90+ degrees and three of us and of course, the pump fails but not the check valve so the pipe was full of water. Needless to say there were three of us lying on the ground gasping for air like a race horse once it was out. After that, we did built a wheel we could pull them out with the truck.
Was the top of the well not sufficiently covered if there is trash preventing the pump from coming out?
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shameless dude
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Posted: 07 May 2022 at 5:50pm |
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there is a well here that the state uses to measure the water table on the bench ground in eastern NE. they were here a couple weeks ago and the water table was at 14 ft in the well. i've heard well drillers say that you can find water faster and shallower on top of a hill than down lower like in a valley. i have been stuck on a sidehill before with a tractor.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 11 May 2022 at 9:11am |
update...kinda funny, kinda not...
so the 'contractor' decides HE can pull up the stuck pump with his 55hp(?) Bobcat. chains around the pitless adapter/poly pipe connection...yup, he yanked, pipe stretches( really ???) ,then kerplop...pipe goes back into well casing...
oh well not my problem....
I dug new trench from house to where new well will go, according to Scott B (Allis guy) who uses coat hangers in a neat way.......
yesterday Dutch crew comes and dill new well 40' down in just over an hour. GREAT ! then they go and use a really liquidy 'concrete' (?) to 'decommission ' the old well.1st they go into the farmhouse basement SEE the tank has been removed, just an 1 1/4" open poly pipe in the wall.... yeah,they did..... It's amazing how much sooupy, flowie cement came though that pipe !! Now Ana is NOT one to complain, just started hauling buckets of cistern water down the twisty stairs and cleaned up the mess, that,yuck, took hours.
I politely informed 'head office' of the incident and some 'adjustment' WILL be shown on the final bill.
never a dull moment around here.... Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 11 May 2022 at 9:23am |
Thats why you use professionals Jay.. You get the PROFESSIONAL work...  
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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