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Coke-in-MN 
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 Topic: R1234YF Refrigerant
Posted: 18 May 2024 at 12:47am |
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Air in car didn't seem real cold today so thought I would have friend check charge .
Now as he is a pipe fitter / air conditioning specialty - thought it would be easy . NOPE 134A gauge setup wont fit onto 2017 or newer vehicles - only thing mine is 2015 but evidently some vehicles switched before mandated .
So I now need to find adapters for gauge set , find some R1234yf gas, and or have dealer charge system . Evidently reading some sites the cost for dealer is beyond first born and gold bars . So now to figure next step besides driving with window down .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Posted: 18 May 2024 at 4:49am |
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Spoke to the HVAC guys I deal with here, takes a Special gauge set as to Pressure levels, different lines and so on.
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Codger
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Posted: 18 May 2024 at 6:24am |
I've never worked with the latest refrigerants but our new Subaru Forrester uses this. Casual glance and I thought the charge port was R-134A by look. I only seen the one fitting with a black cap and don't know if suction or discharge side.
The compressor stated R-1234YF refrigerant and I'll have to delve further into this.
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DMiller
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Posted: 18 May 2024 at 6:46am |
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Pressures are nearly a Third HIGHER that R12 to 134A, then add another 1/4 to this new stuff. Gauge set I witnessed High Side high end gauge potential was 600#
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Codger
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Posted: 18 May 2024 at 7:29am |
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I'll look online for a P-T and enthalpy charts to see if any better performance than former refrigerants.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 19 May 2024 at 5:58pm |
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The fittings are a different size than 134 fittings and like those both high and low side are a different size . I see one can buy adapters to convert gauge set over for around $12 per fitting , but also a warning before use gauges should be purged to prevent contamination of system .
1234YF I see is around $45 to $65 for 8oz can and system holds 1.8 pounds ,
Was looking up some places and says $250 to $400 to diagnose problems and $150 up to recharge on top of initial price .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Chatahurya
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:51am |
R1234YF refrigerant is the newer stuff used in most cars, especially those made after 2017. It’s designed to be more environmentally friendly than the old R134a, which has been the standard for years. It’s pricier, and finding a mechanic who doesn’t charge an arm and a leg can be a pain. But the upside is it’s better for the planet and meets new regulations.Sticking with R134a might be more straightforward and cheaper if you've got an older car. The cost difference is pretty big—check out the 134a refrigerant price to see what I mean. Some folks even retrofit their older systems to work with R1234YF, but that’s another expense to think about.
Edited by Chatahurya - 16 Dec 2024 at 3:08am
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ekjdm14
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 9:19am |
Honestly, with how much 1234yf costs & the fact I believe it's flammable anyhow I'd be more tempted than not to look into converting over to R290 (propane).
I've run propane as refrigerant in 134a systems for a good few years & if anything I'd say it cools closer to R12, much more effective and very cheap. Not sure if the orifice size in a 1234yf system would make it more or less suited to 290 but I'd take the drop in efficiency over the cost tbh.
Edited by ekjdm14 - 08 Dec 2024 at 9:22am
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 12:08pm |
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Requires different Ref Oil, different expansion Orifice or valving, Different Guage and pumping systems, is SOMEWHAT Non Flammable yet still carries a Flammability Level for shipping.
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PaulB
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 1:25pm |
 Coke-in-MN wrote:
Air in car didn't seem real cold today so thought I would have friend check charge .
Now as he is a pipe fitter / air conditioning specialty - thought it would be easy . NOPE 134A gauge setup wont fit onto 2017 or newer vehicles - only thing mine is 2015 but evidently some vehicles switched before mandated .
So I now need to find adapters for gauge set , find some R1234yf gas, and or have dealer charge system . Evidently reading some sites the cost for dealer is beyond first born and gold bars . So now to figure next step besides driving with window down . |
Tell me again why everyone wants a NEW vehicle. Ever since computers that control everything became the standard for everything, the problems with them just keep compounding. I'm tickled to have my 30+ year old vehicles doing the job that they were built for without constant problems.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
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JW in MO
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 1:56pm |
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I remember the old timers saying that they were glad they got out after the implementation recovery, R134a and R-404a. I know how they felt, glad I don't have to deal with all this new stuff anymore. R-410a was my last endeavor. As for cross contamination of refrigerants, I was fortunate enough to get to experiment with mixing different refrigerants, you have to know the limits, but unless you have 40ft hoses, whatever is in your gauge set isn't going to impact the system, air is the largest danger.
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DMiller
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 2:06pm |
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Personally I Do NOT want a Time Bomb of Propane in a AC system in my machines with the morons on the roads today.
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ekjdm14
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 4:39pm |
For the amount of gas the system holds in comparison to the fuel tank/batteries, I'm comfortable with the risk level even given the relative vulnerability of the AC system with the condenser out front.
Agree it's not for everyone & would never sell a car charged with R290 even with disclosure, but for the purposes of my own vehicles it worked well in 134a systems. Common sense counts for a lot I suppose I.E. not using it to constantly "top off" a leaking system potentially filling the interior or engine bay with an explosive mixture.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 5:10pm |
Is 1234yf oil compatible with 134a?
Given that both refrigerants had very similar results in compatibility with elastomers as well as with metals in low water and no air, HFO-1234yf shows to be a very suitable replacement to HFC-134a in current mobile air conditioning systems.
Edited by steve(ill) - 08 Dec 2024 at 5:10pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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HudCo
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 6:56pm |
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i bought the new yf fittings and have not used them, but what will 134 do in the yf systems ?
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JW in MO
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 7:27pm |
HudCo wrote:
i bought the new yf fittings and have not used them, but what will 134 do in the yf systems ? |
I would imagine it would not cool as well if replaced 100%. I would think both 134 and the yf would require POE oil. We have added varying amounts of R290, (propane), to the refrigerant charge to keep the oil fluid and moving through the system since back in the 70's. Been a while since I had to answer this but I think that the maximum amount of R290 allowed in a system in the US is 6-8ounces. Propane in the system doesn't necessarily make it a potential bomb, a small amount does a lot of cooling and besides, some of the refrigerants I've used have a volatility that would make propane appear rather docile.
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 11:27pm |
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SIDE NOTE - now that it's cold out and AC only used on defroster .
Well went up to another friend who runs a small auto shop - asked him to check it .
So he gets out his pencil temp gages - puts into vents , finds the system is set to direct air to floor vents - 54 F air coming from vent - turns it up to cabin dash vents , same discharge temp .
ME Hitting my Head with hand - REMEMBER how to run the air conditioning system means more than hitting the cooling button on controls .
AND NOW IT's Cold out and did remember how to turn on heat !
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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DMiller
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 4:06am |
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Most of today's automotive AC systems are automated to come on with Defroster control position. All mine are incl the 99 SD Ford and the 05KW. Just have to remember to open the manual isolation valves for heat on the KW.
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HudCo
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Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 7:24pm |
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the biggest part of recharging a/c is just following the preasure temputere chart
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