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Question on tire footprint?

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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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    Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 8:51pm
Have a question on tire footprint.   Went to a pull today and did fairly good, but all of the pullers that did better then me had 38" tires compared to the 28" tires on my 45 diesel.   I was wondering if there was a footprint chart that told the differences between tire sizes and how much tire was on the ground at any one time.  For instance, if I took off the 14.9 x 28 tires that I have on right now and went to 13.6 x 38, would I be better off, or would I have to go to a 14.9 x 38?   This pull was kind of loose on tire size, and there was one tractor in our class, a WD that had I think 16.9 or 18.4 x 26 tires on it.   Most of the other pulls I go to, they limit width to 14.9 or 16.9 in the upper classes, or say to stay with the stock width that was available on the tractor. 
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 8:55pm
a 38" tire will give a longer footprint than a 26"or28"
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Lonn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 8:55pm
Was this a loose gravel track or a hard pulling power sucking black dirt or sticky clay track?If you are choosey on your tracks you'll place a whole lot easier. Deere pullers love the loose gravel tracks cause they don't have the power to compete on hard pulling ones. I'm talking strictly stock not stock appearing like some clubs accept as stock.

Edited by Lonn - 12 Sep 2010 at 8:55pm
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ChuckLuedtkeSEWI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:04pm
well, it was very sticky, wet clay track that they put a bunch of lime on and worked most of the morning to try and dry up but it was wet and mushy.   My tractor is stock, but I'm sure not everyone in these classes are.   They paced us a 4 mph or less in the antique classes, but there wasn't a dyno there to truly regulate.   there was one guy that did well in a WD with 38's on but I was told by a close friend, that he is nowhere near stock on hp, because at one of the pulls they said the dyno will be there next year, and he flat out told people if that was the case he wouldn't be there.    I for one, have no issues throwing my 45 diesel on the dyno. 
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 9:41pm
13.6 x 28 (110 sq inches)....14.9 x 28 (145 sq in)....16.9 x 28 (175 sq in)...13.6 x 38 (165 sq in)...14.9 x 38 (200 sq in)....15.5 x 38 (180 sq in)....info taken from Firestone tire chart....footprint isn't everything......low gear is faster with 38"s and that is a good thing if you got enough HP.
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Rayhowling View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rayhowling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 10:00pm
DrAllis
 Why would a 14.9 x 38 have more sq. inches than a 15.5 x 38? What would a 16.9 x 34 have for square inches, which I have on my 180D?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 10:04pm
A 15.5 x 38 is considered a "low profile" tire and just simply has less sq inches and is not as tall as a 14.9 x 38........16.9 x 34 has 220 sq inches.
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 11:24pm
Any farm tire handbook has those numbers, whether from Firestone, Goodyear, Titan, Continental, or Michelen. You want the pull committed to flip take radials, they grip a whole lot better than bias ply so are usually outlawed.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rayhowling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 11:41pm
Thanks DrAllis,
My 180D had 18.4x 28 and I traded them for 16.9 x 34 with cast hubs off of a Allis 6080. The 16.9 x 34 were brand new tires and the 18.4 x 28 side wall had cracks in them. The bigger tires sure makes it roll faster on the road and I have a 200 gallon milk cooler on 3 ph for gathering sap for maple syrup in the woods. Rolls a lot better in the bush over rough ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stu ECWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 6:57am
It was great to meet you yesterday Chuck! 
 
Chuck was at our FFA Alumni's pull in Eden, WI.  Our track was wet, no doubt, but I think 38"s are probably the way to go.  I can think back to the big difference that going from 13.6 to 14.9's made on our 45 working in the field. 
We also know that there's a lot of overpowered machines there, one gentleman told me that years ago he was told "if you don't cheat, you won't win!"  I'd agree that putting everybody on the dyno would even the field, but the time commitment, and trying to get pullers to arrive early enough for that extra duty, just seem like a monumental added task.
I don't have a good answer for making pulls more fair, after dealing with peoples attitudes, and entitlement issues, I'm glad our's is over!
 
Stu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stu ECWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:27am
Now that I look it over, my last post sounded like a rant, sorry! 
 
Nothing against Chuck!  I was really glad to see him there, and I hope he comes again next year!  And, if you make the move to 38's, I bet you'll finish much higher!  Chuck's 45 diesel sounded awesome, and I heard many comments, later in the day, about never seeing one before.  Stu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 8:05am
Years ago the local club used to dyno the top 3 winners in each class. Meaning if they trophied they got dynoed. The tractors had to wait in an area at the end of the track until the top 3 were all dynoed. They could weight them up for the next class while waiting I believe. Don't know for sure cause I was a young spectator back then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 4:20pm
Stu, I wasn't complaining by any means either.   I would just love to give the AC's justice at the pulls, and hopefully not have to cheat to get it done.   I think what Lonn was saying is a good way to go though too.   If you place in the money, you have to dyno to get it.   That way people also have the option of just not dynoing and giving away what they truly "have" under the hood.   No matter what you do, you're going to have some cheating going on, it's just the nature of the beast.   I'm just out to have fun.   It was good to meet you Stu and I will be there next year.   And if it's going to rain on Friday night next year, I think we should go to Fleet and spread some tarps over the track.   Give me a call, I'd be glad to help in the work.   You guys did alot of work to get things pullable on Sunday and should be commended for keeping it going.   Would have loved to stay later, but I was running out of clean clothes with my daughter pooping on me!!  LOL
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Lester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 4:58pm
Goodyear has a different set of figures than Dr. Allis has.This is for hard surface  clay tracks and not on plowed ground. 13.6 is 156, 14.9 is160, 15.5 is 175 16.9 is 202  18.4 248 all but the 15.5x38  is 28 diameter. Lot of  has to do with skill, tread of  tires , tire pressure. On real pulling tracks the  road ware tires work best and less no. of bars help. And of coarse cut tires with plenty of pressure . Soft low pressure tire may work on  soft tracks. One reason 15.5 work good is because they are flat on bottom and have less sidewall to give witch lowers the drawbar when a tire is too low of pressure the lugs also twist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Fields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:02pm
If you look up on www.natpa.com they have the sizes. I beleive 14.9x28 is 170 sqin, 16.9x26 is 206 sqin. 16.9x28 is 209 sqin. , 13.6-38 is 168 sqin. 14.9-38 is 200 sqin., and 15.5-38 is 189 sqin.  I went to 15.5-38 to get a lever playing field and a shorter tire as comareded to a 14.9-38. It seems most of the domanite allis wd are 38".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:58pm
If taller tires always pull better than wider tires why does most tractor pulls discriminate against ACs and others because they always limit the with  to 16.9 and do not limit the height on lighter classes. Height does not help that much on hard tracks and neither does radials. I pull in 7500 and 8000lb classes with 18.4x30 and we get in the top 1,2  places against 38s and 42s with my 185 in 6mph class. This year we pulled in the 7500lb open and got a second in it too.
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