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Protect your Allis tractors from Ethanol

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Lonn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Protect your Allis tractors from Ethanol
    Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 7:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:28am
Biodieseltoo!https://youtu.be/0phE-t7ddH8

Edited by Lonn - 30 Jun 2021 at 9:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:44am
There's nothing wrong with ethanol if the carburetor is properly jetted for the correct needed air/fuel ratio and you don't allow it to go stale. I run E85 in my spark ignition pulling tractor for more HP and to eliminate overheating problems. So what if it has fewer BTUs per gallon and needs more fuel per run, It's way cheaper than racing gas on which engine will run hot. I'd run pure ethanol if I could get it. 
   If it was cost effective, I would use it in a working tractor that I ran regularly, just maybe not a show queen that only went on a off a trailer ever few weeks.  Gas engine trailer queens should have their tanks and complete fuel systems drained and dried between uses along with a desiccant sock in the tank to absorb whatever moister gets in there while being stored.      
   Bio diesel is probably OK if used on a regular basis and not allowed to set for days or weeks in the tank. It just has fewer BTUs per gallon than petroleum diesel and has cold weather issues, that must be dealt with. 
  As with anything, if used as it's intended, there aren't problems.


Edited by PaulB - 30 Jun 2021 at 3:01pm
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 10:19am
And farm tractors and combines sit a lot, especially those in collections. That is my point......Protect your Allis tractors from ethanol and biodiesel. In Minnesota you don't get a choice for diesel. It's all bio and it is illegal to have non bio delivered from Iowa which I checked into since I'm not that far from Iowa. I've had three pumps rebuilt because of biofuel and ruined a carb off a simplicity that sat a couple years. Good fuel wouldn't do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote victoryallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 11:42am
Lonn

Ethanol is an excellent cleaner sounds like you had less than clean fuel systems. If it adds $.20 to a bushel of corn I’ll gladly deal with it.   Besides only gas motor I rely on is pickups and the lawnmower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 12:27pm
Less than clean can be just sitting with a vented fuel tank over winter. No thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 1:56pm
Ethanol SUCKS!!!
I can get by with it, as long as I am not doing heavy work.  Hard on rubber parts of the fuel system.  It does have good cleaning qualities.
Not as many BTU's generated as pure gasoline.
I often mix some 100LL into my fuel.  This helps when doing heavy work.
Do not use 100LL in systems with oxygen sensors or cat converters. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 2:22pm
Yeah, but what motor oil should we use?  And do you use calcium chloride in the tires??

LOLLOL

So, we have one guy saying less BTU's generated than pure gasoline, but another uses it for pulling for more HP.  

No wonder I'm confused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 3:42pm
I bought a new F250 in 1989... at that time 90% of the gas sold in Illinois was E15 .... Been using it in cars/ trucks / mower/ chainsaw /tractor for 30 years.. No real problems.. Tractors set from Nov till April in the barn.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

I've had three pumps rebuilt because of biofuel and ruined a carb off a simplicity that sat a couple years. Good fuel wouldn't do that.

 There is no such thing as "Good Fuel" these days. It doesn't matter if it has ethanol or not, if you plan to leave it set for 2 years, figure on rebuilding the carb or flush and drain it before parking.
 I don't and won't use bio diesel in my flatbed, because it sets a lot and it's way easier to fill it with real diesel before I park it, instead of trying to drain the bio out and flush it.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 30 Jun 2021 at 5:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 5:25pm
I have had six (80-84-88-93-99-03) F-150 Ford pickups. I have logged over a million miles on all of them. They have always used E-10 exclusively. I have never had one minutes downtime or repairs due to E-10.  I use it fairly regularly for the last eight Summers on my WD45. Again, not one bit of trouble. I have no plans to change my operation. I do NOT use any ethanol on my lawn mower.   All of the cars I have owned ( eight of those) have also exclusively used E-10 since 1980 with zero troubles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 7:25pm
Not sure on ethanol- but the bio diesel crap will make a mess on fuel systems - they can make rocket fuel - and this stuff is junk , but could be an underminded plan  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 7:40pm
I just run the stuff.  E10 never an issue fuel related that wasn't my stupid fault.  Like the old manuals said "buy clean fuel and keep it clean".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC720Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:05pm
10% ethanol causes my check engine light to come on my 2006 Durango. A can of Seafoam and a fill up of non ethanol cleans it back up and the light goes off. I also do not like it. Makes small engines run hot. Never run it in my tractors, garden or farm. I know it benefits corn farmers but I don’t like the stuff. I just pay more for what I consider a better fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:27pm
E10 may be ok for mowing, raking and light work. You really need better fuel if you are doing heavy tillage such as plowing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 10:24pm
I don't like a da*n beauracrat telling me what I can buy. Can still get straight #2 for the diesels that set from fall till spring. Gladly pay the extra cents. About 5yrs ago my supplier told me they can no longer get non alcohol gas from refinery. It's blended at the rack so my small engines and WD/WD45 get that. Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 12:18am
Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

So, we have one guy saying less BTU's generated than pure gasoline, but another uses it for pulling for more HP.  
No wonder I'm confused.


And both are true.

A given volume of 100% Ethanol has about 67% of the fuel energy as an equivalent volume of gasoline.  Per gallon, gasoline exhibits around 115,000btu/gal, while ethanol yields 78,000btu.

When a competition engine is built, it's operation is optomized for the specific energy density and combustion profile of a specific fuel.  Once the engine is running in a proper state of tune, the output is determeined by how much fuel and air is crammed in.  To make the ethanol-powered competition engine meet or exceed a gasoline engine, it needs to be fed more.  The contrast, is simply to make the gasoline engine do the same... more fuel, more air, more output.  All the rest, is just details.

The biggest problems with ethanol, is 1) It is voraciously hygroscopic... it draws moisture from the air... and 2) it has propensity to adopt impurities which attack fuel system components.  Neither of these characteristics make it good for ANY long-term storage circumstance.  The hygroscopic nature can be quickly witnessed by pouring a sample into a clear glass jar, poking holes in the lid, capping it, and placing it on a shelf.  As it absorbs water from the air, the LEVEL in the jar will rise as it 'invites' in more moisture.

Contrary to advertisement, ethanol blended fuel isn't 'clean'... it has a propensity to yield a high level of formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and ground-level ozone.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 6:36am
You guys that like bio crap, have at it. Run all you want but quit electing asshole politicians who force me to run a ty fuel. There is absolutely no doubt that biofuel is inferior and saying anything otherwise just shows ignorance on your part. No offense but that is just a fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 6:53am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone95 Tbone95 wrote:

So, we have one guy saying less BTU's generated than pure gasoline, but another uses it for pulling for more HP.  
No wonder I'm confused.


And both are true.

A given volume of 100% Ethanol has about 67% of the fuel energy as an equivalent volume of gasoline.  Per gallon, gasoline exhibits around 115,000btu/gal, while ethanol yields 78,000btu.

When a competition engine is built, it's operation is optomized for the specific energy density and combustion profile of a specific fuel.  Once the engine is running in a proper state of tune, the output is determeined by how much fuel and air is crammed in.  To make the ethanol-powered competition engine meet or exceed a gasoline engine, it needs to be fed more.  The contrast, is simply to make the gasoline engine do the same... more fuel, more air, more output.  All the rest, is just details.

The biggest problems with ethanol, is 1) It is voraciously hygroscopic... it draws moisture from the air... and 2) it has propensity to adopt impurities which attack fuel system components.  Neither of these characteristics make it good for ANY long-term storage circumstance.  The hygroscopic nature can be quickly witnessed by pouring a sample into a clear glass jar, poking holes in the lid, capping it, and placing it on a shelf.  As it absorbs water from the air, the LEVEL in the jar will rise as it 'invites' in more moisture.

Contrary to advertisement, ethanol blended fuel isn't 'clean'... it has a propensity to yield a high level of formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and ground-level ozone.
Yes, aware of these facts, except what I highlighted in red.

Does that not mean, you could still tune and set up a given engine on gasoline to outperform what you just set up on ethanol?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 8:04am
I haven't had problems with modern cars or modern garden tractors with the E10.
I am sure it is more corrosive than pure gas. With the generators or old gas tractors,
I drain the carbs bowl, then I fill with something else. That being WD-40, Marvel, ATF,
fogging oil. I used them all, seems to work, but who knows if I am really helping out.
When time comes to use the equipment, I drain the oil from the bowl, and let gas flow to flush the carb. Has been working for me. However it seems dumb for each owner to invent their own ritual. Somehow in my brain I got the idea that a light oil in the carb would be better than letting it sit dry.

While living in California, I did take a batch of E10 Chevron regular and determined it contained 14% ethanol, not 10%. Right now I can't recall how I did that. But I used to be handy in chemistry and lab techniques.

So my question is, for running E10-E15, if you have a fixed jet carb setup (from the days of real gas), should we drill out the main jet to let it pass more fuel? The area of the jet's hole should be increased by... 5% or so?

Question #2, for any gas tractor, how do you know it is jetted spot on? I have read  half-assed procedures , they all seem so subjective, reading plugs, listening to feel how engine accelerates and things of that nature. Aren't there exhaust gas analyzers?

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 4:13pm
The point is that it is corrosive and damages fuel tanks and carburetors. 10%, 15% or 85%, it doesn't matter. I don't run dirty fuel. I run clean fuel except biofuel is dirty as soon as they add the bio. That IS the contamination to start with. So anybody who said "sounds like you had less than clean fuel systems" with all due respect YES TRUE. IT HAS BIO IN IT AND THAT MAKES IT UNCLEAN period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 11:01pm
Why do gasahol fuel barrels get the black coating on them? It is worst where the vent is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Why do gasahol fuel barrels get the black coating on them? It is worst where the vent is.
Does it on the tractor fuel tanks too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 11:41pm
when you drive by a farm site with fuel tanks in view,you can tell which one is the gas barrel
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I've been using it in everything since 1977. Chain saw sits for months on end and has never failed to start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 8:26pm
Well the Stihl dealer recommends to not use ethanol. But maybe because your chain saw fuel is a 30:1 or 40:1 or 50:1 mixed with oil it stands a better chance. I won't run ethanol in my chain saw or trimmer ever. I had a Poulan that was always a hard starter from new but I ran ethanol in it and then I caught it in fire using ether to try and get it started. It was only 3 years old and I was glad to see that hard starting @!%#@! burn. That's when I bought my Stihl and I blamed Poulan for the hard starting while my Stihl at 10 years old has been stellar and it has cut a heck of a lot of wood. Maybe it was the fuel because I listened to the Stihl dealer and have always ran non ethanol. It hasn't been run for over a year because of my back and hip issues but I'd bet last month's salary it will start right up if I go try it tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2021 at 5:06am
Sorry that I'm getting off topic here.

When I bought my 250 Stihl, I was telling the dealer that the biggest problem I have is that the saw sits unused for long periods of time. On my old saw, it seemed that I was cleaning the carburetor every time I wanted to use it. He recommended using the premixed gas/oil. If I am using it a lot, I sometimes mix my own, but when I am finishing up, I make sure I go back to the premix. 

I also started doing the same thing with my Stihl string trimmer.

Since changing to the premix, I have never had to clean a carburetor. It cost a little more, but it is worth it to me.
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