WD45 Narrow to Wide Front End
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99651
Printed Date: 24 Nov 2024 at 8:51am
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Topic: WD45 Narrow to Wide Front End
Posted By: R.W
Subject: WD45 Narrow to Wide Front End
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 1:56pm
| What would be needed to convert a narrow front end to factory wide front end on a WD45? How much would a guy expect to spend on the conversion? Pictures of what I need would be helpful, if anyone has them. -Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 4:42pm
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Basically, you have to have the factory front end with the ballister (part that goes between the frame rails) and the front engine support that goes crosswise under the frame rails. First you need to slightly raise the front end and support with jack stands. Next you need to remove the bolts that hold the steering shaft bolts to the back of the ballister (sp). Then remove the 4 bolts on each side of the frame rail. You may have to heat these bolts to get them out. Try not to twist them off. They are tough to get out if you twist then off. Next I loosen all the bolts on the left side frame rail. It makes it a lot easier to get the front support out. My experience is that it's easier to loosen the frame rail right away. It makes the job a lot easier in the long run. Pry the left frame rail out until the front support is loose, then forward to clear the steering shaft. Basically reverse for the installation of the WFE. I wish you were closer. I have a very good 3 bolt WFE that I would like to see someone get some good out of! $300 (+/-) seems to be the going price for a WFE with good spindles, hubs and bearings. |
Posted By: Rltool
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 5:28pm
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I just helped a guy with one. These are the front & rear support brackets that I made for a 3 bolt front end. http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/rltool/media/photo1_zpsa29a8d3a.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  This is a bolster for it. This one came with the steering shaft. So you could just take it loose at the steering knuckle. http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/rltool/media/photo5_zps390653e1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 6:49pm
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So I should be able to buy the whole assembly that is ready to bolt on? No special pieces? Kind of a unit in itself? ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:07pm
| If you already have a wide front end, it is a very simple job to remove the axle, leave the bolster (gearbox)in the tractor, and bolt on a narrow front tricycle post. That would be referred to as an "inter-changeable" front end.......wide front or tricycle front. Look closely at what you currently have to be sure it isn't already got the correct bolster/gearbox. Probably not, but you never know. |
Posted By: Rltool
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:11pm
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Yes. Most people selling them. Sell them as a complete unit. Maybe not rims & tires. But the narrow front hubs & rims are interchangeable. You can find them anywhere from $250 to $500. When you buy them. Look at all the moveable joints & steering gear for excessive were. All of it can be fixed, just adds to the total cost. I would recommend disassembling as WF owner said. Ray W. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:14pm
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I would estimate $500 to $700 for the budget. If you get it done for less then you can go out and have a nice dinner:) You may need parts for the new wide front. Like tie rods, bushings, bearings. I did a swap of a worn out wide front to a less worn out wide front and replaced most of the parts, this year. Broken bolts in the usable bolster was one of the problems. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:15pm
| RW when I got my wide front I completely went through it and replaced all worn bearings and seals and then painted it. Once I had it ready to install I swaped it over in a couple hrs. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 7:54pm
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I have one that is good and tight. It needs no bushings, tie rods, nothing. $300 plus shipping! |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 8:48pm
| after alifetime with a wide front on my wd iswicthed it to a narrow front still not sure that i am not going to switch it back to the wide front if the bolts inthe frame come out and the steering shaft u joint comes apart about an hour and a half probley plan on replacing the u joint |
Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 8:57pm
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RW, I would jump on WFowner's offer........that is a good deal! |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 9:53pm
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The price is very reasonable, but to ship it 700 miles would make it not so cheap... Thanks for the offer, I will have to find one closer. ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2014 at 10:35pm
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If you have a loader on the WD45 you might look for a four bolt front end over the three bolt front end.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Rltool
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 5:09am
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Don is right. There is a 3 bolt wide front for sale east of Kalamazoo , MI right now. They are asking $350. I may have one for sale within a couple months also. Ray W. |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 8:59am
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Are the 4 bolt front ends priced the same? I'm guessing they are harder to find? I don't plan to install a loader, but I can't be sure that I never will. I'd rather have the heavier built front end from the start, than to end up with problems later. ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: Rltool
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 9:22am
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What I've seen on average the 4 bolt ones are about $100 more. I'm not sure what is different between them. I know the front support plate bolt pattern is spread out more on the 4 bolt bolster. And the internal brg setup is different. Just by noticing the top cover plates are different. Some one else on here will know more. Ray W. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 11:49am
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If you have a WD/WD45 with power steering and use the front bolster like in Ray's pic it will work OK but you will need to remove the front pulley to remove the engine. The latter front ends had a diff bolster that didn't have the longer top lip.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: R.W
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 2:10pm
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I have power steering and my narrow front is a solid unit unlike the one pictured. ------------- In Search Of: 1958 Allis Chalmers D17 Diesel serial #9643D |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 12:41pm
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I found this post and I am getting ready to swap my narrow for a wide front end. The advice you got from another member seemed straight forward. I was wondering if the steering shaft is the same. Any advice would be very gratefully appreciated. I have a 1956 WD45 I like the narrow a lot but also like the wide too. I have one with new bearings and rebuilt pivot pin & plate. I was wondering how yours went together. Thanks Tony ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 12:46pm
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Food for thought, the crankshaft pulley is actually different between wide and narrow front ends. I took out my narrow and put in a three bolt wide front, now the hand crank doesn't engage the pulley. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:01pm
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I have both hand crank shafts and there is a little difference in the pin, I noticed. I will watch for it. I have a four bolt front and use the same steering shaft that come with the wide front. Did it go pretty smooth taking it on and off? ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:09pm
| I've never swapped front ends, but I've had mine completely off and rebuilt like Rtool did. Pretty straightforward. If you do make the swap, make sure to disassemble your new bolster and replace all the seals. You don't want to get it all on and find out how much it leaks everywhere. |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:24pm
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Good idea, that would be easier to do now. Did you only loosen the left rail to get it off? I don't have power steering, I wish I did. I also wish I had a manual. I got a lot of cleaning to do so I think I will go for it as soon as I get the prep work done. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 1:48pm
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If your thinking about changing you better start soaking the bolts that hold the front end in the frame. Then by the time you are ready the bolts might come out easier. Tom
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:02pm
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I'd try not loosening either frame ail first and see if it comes out. If it's too tight, just loosen one side a little. Mae sure everything is blocked good. Forgot to say if the pivots are wore, you might want to repair like Rtool did. He might even build the parts for you. When I did mine, I replaced all the pivot points and put grease fittings on them. A work to the wise, if you replace the long rear pivot bold on the back, get everything in place and weld the new bolt to the rear support while it's on the tractor. If you do it while it's apart, you'll get the angle wrong and have to cut it off and do over. At least I did... |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:37pm
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I've found it easier to loosen the (left) frame rail right away. (To remove the right rail, you have to remove the belt pulley and drain the oil.) After you get it loose, you have room to work. It's much easier with the frame rails separated. |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:49pm
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I got everything soaking and going to soak it some more. The pivot points are all rebuilt with grease fittings front and rear and new pivot pin. The guy I got it from done this all His self plus new bearings. He was going to put it on his the way it is, WD45 but parted it out instead. I hope the angles of pivot is correct. His other rebuilds looked very good. I guess I will find out. He got a John Deer. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 2:59pm
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The rear pivot pin did not get replaced just the rear bushing in plate with a grease fitting installed. The steering box needs to be cleaned out and new seals. I recon I am going for it. I can sell the narrow or switch back. I hope it is not a lot harder to steer. I appreciate the help. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 3:06pm
| My wide front steers pretty easy, I have 4 slab weights on the front too. Like and manual steering it works better if you're moving. You'll need a press to the gear off the inside vertical pedestal shaft. You have to press the gear off to change the seal. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 4:09pm
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If you need more help you can send me a PM and I will walk you through it. Don ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 8:51am
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Thanks very much I will let you know very shortly. I got the steering box to move about a inch, It got in a bind. the steering shaft come loose and is away from the box. Allis Dave's post said I had to have it pressed out to replace seal. I guess he will see this post. I will reply to him to does he mean the gasket or another seal? ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 8:56am
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Do you mean the gasket where it bolts to the box or another seal, on the shaft. A bearing seal? I got it to move about a inch bit it got in a bind. Going to try to go back and get it out in a few min. Thank you for any and all help. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 6:18pm
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The steering shaft come out no problem. The shaft going to the steering wheel. What I mean, is underneath the gearbox is the main round pedestal that rotates. Is has maybe 8 bolt that bolt it to the main casting. When you pull the bottom out, there is a large seal, like a wheel seal only bigger. There a big gear on that shaft that you have to press off to change the seal. Your owner's manual has an exploded diagram of this. If you don't have an owners manual get one from this site or ebay. you shouldn't be without one.
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Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 9:26pm
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I got it off and I can see the large seal you are referring too. I recon I otta replace that, and get a manual. I am getting it ready for paint. after all the seals are replaced. The tie rod ends seem tight, but they do not have a boot on them or grease fittings. Probably after market. It always cost more than I plan for. Thanks for any and all the help from everyone. I will have more questions putting it back together. Like should I put the steering shaft on steering box first. or the steering knuckle on the tractor. Then slide the box up to it? Tried to send a picture but very slow computer. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 7:04am
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My original tie rods didn't have grease fittings either. I thought that was weird. You can drill and tap them for a grease fitting if you want. Check to make sure that you can get the tie rods loosened up good to slide in and out. Mine were froze up bad, so I finally threw them away and bought new ones. You can buy new boots for them for Steiners or others. While everything's apart, you should also drill and tap the front and rear pivots for grease fittings so you can grease them. I don't know why Allis didn't do that from the factory. |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 8:42am
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The previous owner rebuilt the front and rear pivot points also put in grease fittings in them. Also one in each steering king pin shaft, for the lack of correct term. All the bushing's look good. New wheel bearings and race. He was going to put it on his WD45 like it is. Because everything else look good. I was impressed with his work! He got something else and parted it out. I think I am going to run it. If I need to replace any more seals, such as the steering box main seal. I plan on doing a complete restore in the future. I don't have the funds to do what I want and need tractor this spring. I saw so many different manuals on Ebay, at a good price. Don't know witch one to get. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 9:18am
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Sorry, I remember know you saying it had been rebuilt. I was going to say to buy one from the site's AAllis store at the top of the page but for some reason only Diesel manuals are listed. Just make sure you get a WD45 owners manual and you'll be in good shape. A service manual is always nice to have to. Just make sure you get an Allis service manual and not an IT one. |
Posted By: tak
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 8:57pm
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I ordered a manual and need a pivot bolt. I lost it or never had it. I think it is counter sunk.I can't wait to get the manual. And stop guessing the name of the part. ------------- WD45 |
Posted By: Jmmarks70
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 6:46pm
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Hi Rltool, I just swapped out my narrow Wd front to a wide 4 bolt. Both pivot plates are wore. Are you still selling the plates because I would be intetested if so. Thanks Jeremy |
Posted By: Rltool
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:49am
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Jmmarks70, Yes I am still making those. Give me a call. (269)8zero4-5984 Ray W. |